[RTDEE2]

first darlo, now northwich victoria could close it's doors. Deloitte have told them to leave their stadium by 5:30pm tomorrow. :/

[NE63 exile]

I think I posted this on the Darlington thread that there are a number of English non-league clubs on the brink. A good few in the Blue Square League's. There are real problems up the top of the Non-League pyramid. Droylsden, Kettering, Bishop's Stortford and Eastwood Town all in the shit financially. So many clubs living beyond their means but in Bishops case they were punted into a league where they should never have been sent.
There are a good few clubs that have been punted down the divisions too from the Blue Square League's on financial reasons. Lancaster, Farsley, Halifax, Chester & Boston United to name a few.
Northwich's management walked earlier in the week to take over at struggling Welsh Premier club Airbus UK earlier this week. Thought it was a strange one well you have answered that one. I think they got demoted because of financial problems from the BSN to the EvoStick IIRC. The ground is only a few years old too.

This post has been edited by NE63 exile: 18 January 2012 - 17:52

[cmontheloknow]

NE63 exile, on 18 January 2012 - 17:47, said:

I think I posted this on the Darlington thread but there are a number of English non-league clubs on the brink. A good few in the Blue Square League's. There are real problems up the top of the Non-League pyramid. Droylsden, Kettering, Bishop's Stortford and Eastwood Town all in the shit financially.
Northwich's management walked earlier in the week to take over at struggling Welsh Premier club Airbus UK earlier this week. Thought it was a strange one well you have answered that one. I think they got demoted because of financial problems from the BSN to the EvoStick IIRC. The ground is only a few years old too.

These clubs play financial roulette with their futures trying to maintain such high levels of football. My own BSP side Southport survived oblivion once and seem determined to never return by sticking largely to part-time status even if it means the wait to get back into the Football League becomes an eternal one.

[NE63 exile]

From what I've been told there are only 3 or 4 part-time teams in the Blue Square Premier the rest are full-time. That's a financial disaster just waiting to happen. And Southport are putting quite a few of the full-time teams to shame even though they are one of the few that are living within their means operating on part-time terms.
I know my local club down there Blyth Spartans seem to have it on good authority thay they stand a good chance of avoiding relegation from the Blue Square North because of sanctions on three or four clubs either above them in the league or in the Premier.

[Enrico Annoni]

thats crazy the amount of full time non league teams.


Do we know what they get TV & sponsorship wise?

[NE63 exile]

They have a tv deal with the Irish broadcaster Premier Sports but I wouldn't imagine it will be no where near the deal they had with Setanta who used to show at least one live game a week.
Not sure how much sponsorship they get off Blue Square but they have sponsored the league for about three or four seasons now.
There are huge running costs in the North and South league's especially if you are a Southern club and you get punted into the North league like what happened to Bishop's Stortford. This can often happen if there are more Southern clubs finishing in the bottom four relegation places than there are from the North.
When you consider Blyth Spartans are the furthest team North, Bishop's Stortford 20-odd mile north of London is the furthest to the South East (it was Histon in Cambridgeshire before they came in), Workington to the North West and Gloucester & Worcester City to South West you can imagine how much money is spent on travel costs.

This post has been edited by NE63 exile: 18 January 2012 - 18:44

[mad dogs fan]

Thats a shame,nice ground and friendly fans.Should have stayed at the drill field.2 grounds for 2 clubs the size of Northwoch and Witton 50 yds apart bad idea.

[Sergeant Wilson]

mad dogs fan, on 18 January 2012 - 19:02, said:

Thats a shame,nice ground and friendly fans.Should have stayed at the drill field.2 grounds for 2 clubs the size of Northwoch and Witton 50 yds apart bad idea.

I didn't know that! Looked at a map now. Building that stadium was mental.

[cmontheloknow]

Sergeant Wilson, on 18 January 2012 - 19:15, said:

I didn't know that! Looked at a map now. Building that stadium was mental.

The fact that both stadiums are in the middle of nowhere also must be a problem. Had been to both Drill Field and the new Witton ground (which from memory replaced Central Park in the town) when watching Port in the Conference mid 90s. I know which one I preferred! Soulless industrial state.

[MTJ]

Why the f**k does a wee diddy town like Northwich have two teams!? Apparently the town has a total population of 19k, I doubt the surrounding area brings it to much more than that.

[vikingTON]

We may comment now, but I'm afraid that this will be the Scottish First Division in 5-10 years until either reconstruction or a general end to the madness brings about change.

[cmontheloknow]

MTJ, on 18 January 2012 - 20:14, said:

Why the f**k does a wee diddy town like Northwich have two teams!? Apparently the town has a total population of 19k, I doubt the surrounding area brings it to much more than that.

When they were both in the Conference, and doing fairly averagely they both could get regular gates around the 800 mark. Nowadays I don't think the average together makes that, once gala games against Chester and FCUM are discounted.

[Sergeant Wilson]

I knew about AFC Totton/BAT Sports, the two Harrogate teams. There's probably more in here ground guide

Another odd one is Dagenham & Redbridge, but there was another team formed called Redbridge FC.

ps Does anyone know of a better site on Non League grounds (I know......I'm an anorak.)

[huckleberrydrewe]

Would Stortford not get reshuffled to the south at the end of a particular season or are they shafted until they achieve promotion or relegation, as I thought the English non-leagues re-shuffle prior to the start of each season to accomodate the changes in each leagues members

[huckleberrydrewe]

Sergeant Wilson, on 18 January 2012 - 21:13, said:

I knew about AFC Totton/BAT Sports, the two Harrogate teams. There's probably more in here ground guide

Another odd one is Dagenham & Redbridge, but there was another team formed called Redbridge FC.

ps Does anyone know of a better site on Non League grounds (I know......I'm an anorak.)

Try conference grounds or footballgroundz, nae bad

[NE63 exile]

Sergeant Wilson, on 18 January 2012 - 21:13, said:

I knew about AFC Totton/BAT Sports, the two Harrogate teams. There's probably more in here ground guide

Another odd one is Dagenham & Redbridge, but there was another team formed called Redbridge FC.

There was a feature on the Football League Show about Dagenham & Redbridge a while ago and it was an amalgamation of three clubs. Dagenham, Redbridge Forest and I think the other one may have been Leytonstone & Ilford. I'm sure John Still had managed all three in their non-league at sometime. Your right there is a new club in Redbridge these days. They got to the F.A Cup First Round Proper earlier in the season. Try football grounds in focus (not sure the whole web address. You'll find that interesting.

huckleberrydrewe, on 18 January 2012 - 21:31, said:

Would Stortford not get reshuffled to the south at the end of a particular season or are they shafted until they achieve promotion or relegation, as I thought the English non-leagues re-shuffle prior to the start of each season to accomodate the changes in each leagues members

They threatened to resign from the league and even close the doors after their sideways move. I've heard they will readily take relegation on a plate rather than stay another year in the BSN. As it stands Alfreton Town and Kettering Town are in the relegation mix and depending on what happens regarding Darlington, if three Northern clubs came down Bishops would then get moved back. Another option is if either the likes of Cambridge City or Stourbridge get in a promotion place in the Zammereto League, then they will be punted into the North and Bishops will be transferred back to the South League.

This is the problem with the English pyramid system at non-league level. There are teams regulary get fired from league's from one side of the country to the other side or from one to the other end to balance the chain further up the ladder.

This post has been edited by NE63 exile: 18 January 2012 - 22:13

[cowdenbeath]

NE63 exile, on 18 January 2012 - 22:10, said:

There was a feature on the Football League Show about Dagenham & Redbridge a while ago and it was an amalgamation of three clubs. Dagenham, Redbridge Forest and I think the other one may have been Leytonstone & Ilford. I'm sure John Still had managed all three in their non-league at sometime. Your right there is a new club in Redbridge these days. They got to the F.A Cup First Round Proper earlier in the season. Try football grounds in focus (not sure the whole web address. You'll find that interesting.




They threatened to resign from the league and even close the doors after their sideways move. I've heard they will readily take relegation on a plate rather than stay another year in the BSN. As it stands Alfreton Town and Kettering Town are in the relegation mix and depending on what happens regarding Darlington, if three Northern clubs came down Bishops would then get moved back. Another option is if either the likes of Cambridge City or Stourbridge get in a promotion place in the Zammereto League, then they will be punted into the North and Bishops will be transferred back to the South League.

This is the problem with the English pyramid system at non-league level. There are teams regulary get fired from league's from one side of the country to the other side or from one to the other end to balance the chain further up the ladder.

Instead of having it split north and south the conference should also have a midlands division to try and balance things out imo. Its just madness that Bishops are having to play in the north league.

[cowdenbeath]

Sergeant Wilson, on 18 January 2012 - 21:13, said:

I knew about AFC Totton/BAT Sports, the two Harrogate teams. There's probably more in here ground guide

Another odd one is Dagenham & Redbridge, but there was another team formed called Redbridge FC.

ps Does anyone know of a better site on Non League grounds (I know......I'm an anorak.)

I actually saw both of them play in the close season. Both grounds are right next to each other only separated by a training pitch. A building company bought both teams grounds and built new ones for them right next to each other.
BAT Sports are now know as Totton & Eling.

This post has been edited by cowdenbeath: 18 January 2012 - 22:22

[huckleberrydrewe]

NE63 exile, on 18 January 2012 - 22:10, said:

There was a feature on the Football League Show about Dagenham & Redbridge a while ago and it was an amalgamation of three clubs. Dagenham, Redbridge Forest and I think the other one may have been Leytonstone & Ilford. I'm sure John Still had managed all three in their non-league at sometime. Your right there is a new club in Redbridge these days. They got to the F.A Cup First Round Proper earlier in the season. Try football grounds in focus (not sure the whole web address. You'll find that interesting.




They threatened to resign from the league and even close the doors after their sideways move. I've heard they will readily take relegation on a plate rather than stay another year in the BSN. As it stands Alfreton Town and Kettering Town are in the relegation mix and depending on what happens regarding Darlington, if three Northern clubs came down Bishops would then get moved back. Another option is if either the likes of Cambridge City or Stourbridge get in a promotion place in the Zammereto League, then they will be punted into the North and Bishops will be transferred back to the South League.

This is the problem with the English pyramid system at non-league level. There are teams regulary get fired from league's from one side of the country to the other side or from one to the other end to balance the chain further up the ladder.

I hope when we finally get our leagues of 16 and a full pyramid structure the men in black have taken note!!!

[NE63 exile]

cowdenbeath, on 18 January 2012 - 22:16, said:

Instead of having it split north and south the conference should also have a midlands division to try and balance things out imo. Its just madness that Bishops are having to play in the north league.

That would make far much sense. But the problem is The FA done away with the old Southern League (Midland Division) and jettisoned the clubs between the EvoStick and Zammeretto League's. So in effect they have to go either North or South. The travelling in the EvoStick with all these Birmingham clubs now is horrendous.

[HibeeJibee]

cowdenbeath, on 18 January 2012 - 22:16, said:

Instead of having it split north and south the conference should also have a midlands division to try and balance things out imo. Its just madness that Bishops are having to play in the north league.

Was that not essentially the situation before the Conference N&S were formed, i.e. the 3 leagues which now feed Conference N&S fed the Conference?

I suppose it's the same sort of 'bridging' problem as SFA face with a pyramid here. Their geography and heritage work towards 3 regions below the nationwide - but they've ended-up with a nationwide 'feeder' at Tier 5, and 2 geographically disproportionate new entities below.

[cmontheloknow]

NE63 exile, on 18 January 2012 - 22:10, said:

There was a feature on the Football League Show about Dagenham & Redbridge a while ago and it was an amalgamation of three clubs. Dagenham, Redbridge Forest and I think the other one may have been Leytonstone & Ilford. I'm sure John Still had managed all three in their non-league at sometime. Your right there is a new club in Redbridge these days.

Ford United renamed themselves a few years back.

[NE63 exile]

mad dogs fan, on 18 January 2012 - 19:02, said:

Thats a shame,nice ground and friendly fans.Should have stayed at the drill field.2 grounds for 2 clubs the size of Northwoch and Witton 50 yds apart bad idea.

Northwich were always one of the top of the top non-league sides during the 80s. Along with Altrincham and Telford United they were one of the bigger clubs in the north (and even nationally) that would have probably gained Football League Status had the automatic relegation/promotion came in four or five years earlier. I did the old Drill Field ground which was a smashing traditional non-league ground.

Witton Albion were one of the first non-league clubs to sell their ground and re-locate when club's started doing this in the late 80s. They made a tidy sum on their ground and were throwing money around to get into the Conference (which they did) but they got no further and gradually when the gravy train dried up the slide back down the leagues began. I didn't realise that the Vics new ground is opposite Albion's Wincham Park.

[cowdenbeath]

HibeeJibee, on 18 January 2012 - 22:32, said:

Was that not essentially the situation before the Conference N&S were formed, i.e. the 3 leagues which now feed Conference N&S fed the Conference?

I suppose it's the same sort of 'bridging' problem as SFA face with a pyramid here. Their geography and heritage work towards 3 regions below the nationwide - but they've ended-up with a nationwide 'feeder' at Tier 5, and 2 geographically disproportionate new entities below.

Sort of there was one north feeder and two south feeders. The guy who prints our programme also does work for non-league sides in the Midlands and his gripe has always been that there was never a dedicated league for Midland sides (one of his clubs play in the Conference North and one in the Conference South and they arn't that far apart), mostly they play in the Southern League which can see trips to places like Devon and Dorset or get put in the Northern Premier League and end up going up to Blyth.
Given the population and amount of non league sides in the area they could have a league stretching across the middle of the country as well as the Conference North and South.

[NE63 exile]

HibeeJibee, on 18 January 2012 - 22:32, said:

Was that not essentially the situation before the Conference N&S were formed, i.e. the 3 leagues which now feed Conference N&S fed the Conference?

I suppose it's the same sort of 'bridging' problem as SFA face with a pyramid here. Their geography and heritage work towards 3 regions below the nationwide - but they've ended-up with a nationwide 'feeder' at Tier 5, and 2 geographically disproportionate new entities below.

Your right HJ, this is exactly what problems the SFA are going face if they push the pyramid through. The problems arise when two or three clubs from the same region fall into a relegation place and numbers need balancing.

If I remember correctly there was quite a bit opposition to this new Conference set-up. The Evo-Stick top flight lost it's 10 top clubs and inherited a load of clubs from the Midlands who were way out of their catchment area when the Southern League in effect disbanded it's Midland Section. They made regional North & South first divisions as a result.

No doubt the Southern League and Isthmian League's would probably suffered similiary.

The travelling in the Evo-Stick now is dreadful. Apart from a trip to Colwyn Bay, the Potteries was about as far as you went along with the Sheffield, Chesterfield & Humberside area. Now there are a number of teams from the Birmingham and Leicester areas in. My mate is Secretary of Blyth Spartans, they reckon the travelling will be worse for them than the BSN if they get relegated. That's why hardly anyone from the Northern League take up promotion.