[Geedub-MFC]

Who are the worst team to win a cup?

An extreme example might be East Sirling winning the Scottish Cup but finishing bottom of the 3rd division

[HibeeJibee]

East Fife won the Scottish Cup of 1937-38 and finished 26th in the league structure - they're the only lower-league side ever to win it. They also won the 1947-48 League Cup, and finished 17th (going up to the First Division as champions from the lower tier).

Queen's Park won the 1892-93 Scottish Cup whilst not playing in league football.

Stenhousemuir won the 1995-96 Challenge Cup and finished 24th in the SFL.

Motherwell won the 1964-65 Summer Cup (for 16 top division clubs i.e. excluding the Old Firm) and finished 14th in the top level.


Of course, "lowest" doesn't necessarily mean "worst"...

[Geedub-MFC]

Thanks. Greenie for you next time I'm on the laptop

This post has been edited by Geedub-MFC: 17 January 2012 - 19:57

[vikingTON]

Falkirk won the 1913 Scottish Cup only by beating a minnow like Raith in the final. Kilmarnock in 1920 against Albion Rovers.

[Green&White Zebra]

Nature of the Cup is that bad teams can win it with the luck of the draw, bounce etc.

In my living memory the worst team to win it was St Mirren in 1987 against an exhausted Dundee United side. Although the United side that won it in 1994 pushes it pretty close.

As for the League Cup, it's generally been shared round a bit more but even when the likes of Partick, Hibs or Livingston won it, they were in-form sides. Strictly speaking Raith Rovers were the worst in my living memory in 1994 although they did win Division 1 and were probably as good as half the Premier League at the time.

[Angusfifer]

vikingTON, on 18 January 2012 - 17:35, said:

Falkirk won the 1913 Scottish Cup only by beating a minnow like Raith in the final. Kilmarnock in 1920 against Albion Rovers.

Amazing! Did they both get byes all the way to the final?

[AsimButtHitsASix]

Green&White Zebra, on 19 January 2012 - 07:12, said:

As for the League Cup, it's generally been shared round a bit more but even when the likes of Partick, Hibs or Livingston won it, they were in-form sides. Strictly speaking Raith Rovers were the worst in my living memory in 1994 although they did win Division 1 and were probably as good as half the Premier League at the time.

I think you're being harsh on Raith there. That Raith team would be top six in the SPL now.

[The Old Northerner]

Dahn Sahf it would have to be Swindon, I would think

http://en.wikipedia...._Cup_Final_1969

[Stag Nation]

vikingTON, on 18 January 2012 - 17:35, said:

Falkirk won the 1913 Scottish Cup only by beating a minnow like Raith in the final. Kilmarnock in 1920 against Albion Rovers.

Minnow? Compared to Falkirk?

[Fitba Stats Bobby]

Green&White Zebra, on 19 January 2012 - 07:12, said:

Nature of the Cup is that bad teams can win it with the luck of the draw, bounce etc.

In my living memory the worst team to win it was St Mirren in 1987 against an exhausted Dundee United side. Although the United side that won it in 1994 pushes it pretty close.

As for the League Cup, it's generally been shared round a bit more but even when the likes of Partick, Hibs or Livingston won it, they were in-form sides. Strictly speaking Raith Rovers were the worst in my living memory in 1994 although they did win Division 1 and were probably as good as half the Premier League at the time.

Oh I think the Hearts team in 2006 was much worse - it was by far the worst performance, ever, anywhere, to win a cup.

[shedboy82]

Green&White Zebra, on 19 January 2012 - 07:12, said:

Nature of the Cup is that bad teams can win it with the luck of the draw, bounce etc.

In my living memory the worst team to win it was St Mirren in 1987 against an exhausted Dundee United side. Although the United side that won it in 1994 pushes it pretty close.

As for the League Cup, it's generally been shared round a bit more but even when the likes of Partick, Hibs or Livingston won it, they were in-form sides. Strictly speaking Raith Rovers were the worst in my living memory in 1994 although they did win Division 1 and were probably as good as half the Premier League at the time.

More than a tad harsh on that United side from '94. Certainly if you're referring to their league form, finishing just above the relegation zone in '94 and relegated in '95, you've got a point. But they were woefully under performing considering the talent and experience in the team - and being managed by the charismatic but bonkers, and probably out of his depth, Ivan Golac may have been the most pertinent factor. That cup winning side was:

Guido van de Kamp
Alex Cleland
Gordan Petric
Brian Welsh
Maurice Malpas
Dave Bowman
Jim McInally
David Hannah
Christian Dailly
Craig Brewster
Andy McLaren

Jerren Nixon came on as a sub, and Billy McKinlay was suspended.

They shouldn't have been anywhere near the bottom of the league, and under a decent manager I'd imagine it's a side that would do very well in today's SPL.

This post has been edited by shedboy82: 10 February 2012 - 01:17

[itzdrk]

greece 2002 voted by mr k sheils

"football was the looser"

[phanni tikklar]

The Old Northerner, on 22 January 2012 - 17:25, said:

Dahn Sahf it would have to be Swindon, I would think

http://en.wikipedia...._Cup_Final_1969

I'm sure i read sonewhere that spurs are the only non league side ever to win the FA cup.. So it must be them down south

[Skyline Drifter]

AsimButtHitsASix, on 22 January 2012 - 10:27, said:

I think you're being harsh on Raith there. That Raith team would be top six in the SPL now.

^^^^^^ Didn't understand the question.

Fitba Stats Bobby, on 02 February 2012 - 14:08, said:

Oh I think the Hearts team in 2006 was much worse - it was by far the worst performance, ever, anywhere, to win a cup.

^^^^^^ Not sure if didn't understand the question or merely taking the opportunity to get a dig in at Hearts? Suspect the latter though it's dangerous territory for a Hibs fan to move into so far as the Scottish Cup is concerned!

[phanni tikklar]

Skyline Drifter, on 10 February 2012 - 19:10, said:

^^^^^^ Didn't understand the question.


^^^^^^ Not sure if didn't understand the question or merely taking the opportunity to get a dig in at Hearts? Suspect the latter though it's dangerous territory for a Hibs fan to move into so far as the Scottish Cup is concerned!

The same hearts side that beat hibs 4-0 in the semi hahahahaha

[RAZOR]

Fantastic game but horrendous team, Liverpool 2005. I shed a tear for football when Antonio Nunez lifted the Champions League Trophy!

[peasy23]

phanni tikklar, on 10 February 2012 - 17:09, said:

I'm sure i read sonewhere that spurs are the only non league side ever to win the FA cup.. So it must be them down south

There were only 2 divisions of 18 teams in the football league at that time, so Spurs were effdctively at the same level as Swindon.

[Jacksgranda]

shedboy82, on 10 February 2012 - 01:01, said:

More than a tad harsh on that United side from '94. Certainly if you're referring to their league form, finishing just above the relegation zone in '94 and relegated in '95, you've got a point. But they were woefully under performing considering the talent and experience in the team - and being managed by the charismatic but bonkers, and probably out of his depth, Ivan Golac may have been the most pertinent factor. That cup winning side was:

Guido van de Kamp
Alex Cleland
Gordan Petric
Brian Welsh
Maurice Malpas
Dave Bowman
Jim McInally
David Hannah
Christian Dailly
Craig Brewster
Andy McLaren

Jerren Nixon came on as a sub, and Billy McKinlay was suspended.

They shouldn't have been anywhere near the bottom of the league, and under a decent manager I'd imagine it's a side that would do very well in today's SPL.

Would they not be a wee bit old?

[HibeeJibee]

peasy23, on 11 February 2012 - 18:58, said:

There were only 2 divisions of 18 teams in the football league at that time, so Spurs were effdctively at the same level as Swindon.

And the Southern League, of which they were holders, was a really strong league. It even played v the Football, Irish, and Scottish leagues on the Select circuit. A few years later most of its clubs joined the Football League, infact.

[Jacksgranda]

HibeeJibee, on 11 February 2012 - 21:46, said:

And the Southern League, of which they were holders, was a really strong league. It even played v the Football, Irish, and Scottish leagues on the Select circuit. A few years later most of its clubs joined the Football League, infact.

were they not admitted en masse as Division 3, after the Great War? (Becoming Division Three South the following season when Division Three North was created.)

[HibeeJibee]

They were yes: maybe saying a "few years" is stretching it a bit tbf. They were a source of clubs for the FL annual elections before that though - Clapton Orient (now Leyton Orient) were elected in 1905, Fulham in 1907, both Bradford Park Avenue and Spurs in 1908, and Cardiff in 1920 (elected to 2nd Div while 21 other SL clubs formed 3rd Div). Stoke City also had a failed bids in 1910 and 1914.

Their results in Select internationals v Scottish League were:

1910... Southern League 1-0 Scottish League ... @Millwall
1911... Scottish League 3-2 Southern League ... @Clyde
1912... Southern League 1-0 Scottish League ... @Millwall
1913... Scottish League 5-0 Southern League ... @Third Lanark
1914... Southern League 1-1 Scottish League ... @Millwall

[phanni tikklar]

HibeeJibee, on 11 February 2012 - 21:46, said:

And the Southern League, of which they were holders, was a really strong league. It even played v the Football, Irish, and Scottish leagues on the Select circuit. A few years later most of its clubs joined the Football League, infact.

They also played hearts that year as we were scottish cup holders.. In what was billed as a world championship decider.. We drew 0-0 in london and beat them 3 or 4 nil at tynecastle i think

[Jacksgranda]

HibeeJibee, on 11 February 2012 - 23:17, said:

They were yes: maybe saying a "few years" is stretching it a bit tbf. They were a source of clubs for the FL annual elections before that though - Clapton Orient (now Leyton Orient) were elected in 1905, Fulham in 1907, both Bradford Park Avenue and Spurs in 1908, and Cardiff in 1920 (elected to 2nd Div while 21 other SL clubs formed 3rd Div). Stoke City also had a failed bids in 1910 and 1914.

Their results in Select internationals v Scottish League were:

1910... Southern League 1-0 Scottish League ... @Millwall
1911... Scottish League 3-2 Southern League ... @Clyde
1912... Southern League 1-0 Scottish League ... @Millwall
1913... Scottish League 5-0 Southern League ... @Third Lanark
1914... Southern League 1-1 Scottish League ... @Millwall

Were Bradford Park Avenue in the Southern League? Can't imagine Stoke City being in it either to be honest, but they might have been, whenever there were 2 Third Divisions it was always a midlands team that got shunted between the Northern & Southern sections, usually Walsall if memory serves me right. Not sure if Cardiff would have been in it (the Southern League) either.

However, at the turn of the 20th century it was a very strong league, nearly rivalling the Football League. It was hardly surprising that there was a "Southern" League, given that the majority of the teams in the Football League were from the north and midlands, particularly in the early years, and a good few teams were elected from it into the FL.

Edit: Googled Bradford Park Avenue, Stoke City & Cardiff City, and both Bradford PA and Cardiff City played in the Southern League. Would never have thought it!

This post has been edited by Jacksgranda: 12 February 2012 - 11:28

[peasy23]

Jacksgranda, on 12 February 2012 - 11:22, said:

Were Bradford Park Avenue in the Southern League? Can't imagine Stoke City being in it either to be honest, but they might have been, whenever there were 2 Third Divisions it was always a midlands team that got shunted between the Northern & Southern sections, usually Walsall if memory serves me right. Not sure if Cardiff would have been in it (the Southern League) either.

However, at the turn of the 20th century it was a very strong league, nearly rivalling the Football League. It was hardly surprising that there was a "Southern" League, given that the majority of the teams in the Football League were from the north and midlands, particularly in the early years, and a good few teams were elected from it into the FL.

Edit: Googled Bradford Park Avenue, Stoke City & Cardiff City, and both Bradford PA and Cardiff City played in the Southern League. Would never have thought it!

It's now swung the other way in the Conference North and South. A recent North fixture saw Workington travel from Cumbria to take on Bishops Stortford, which is 5 minutes from London Stansted airport. A 600 mile round trip.

[bAzTNM]

How did they work that one out? Seems a bit insane for the North section.