[hadders]

What is Amateur football coming to when a team play a player who was away on holiday to Australia then comes home and all he wants is a game of football so the manager plays him only to find out he needs international clearance.Its amateur football for goodness sake.

[Eye Valley]

hadders, on 15 January 2012 - 18:31, said:

What is Amateur football coming to when a team play a player who was away on holiday to Australia then comes home and all he wants is a game of football so the manager plays him only to find out he needs international clearance.Its amateur football for goodness sake.

Did he play in Oz?
And who flagged this?

[Selkirk Loyal]

Ok let's explain this one.

Michael Romanes has played for Selkirk Victoria since he was 15 (with a couple of seasons at the first team), he is now 24. He left to go to Australia in November 2010. He signed with a team in Brisbane in roughly March 2011 and played a few games. This side sent an e-mail to the SFA and Selkirk to get clearance to play as he was signed to a side in Scotland (us). Their season ends approx when ours starts so as of about August 2011 he was signed to nobody.

So he returns to Selkirk at Xmas 2011 for a three week holiday and plays for us against Langholm in the South Cup last week. Our manager hands in the signing on sheet to Colin Campbell on the way home and he says that the signing has been done correctly.

On the Sunday morning he phones our match secretary to say that when he went to put the form through, a message popped up to say that Mike didn't have international clearance to play in Scotland.

As a result we have been told that our game against Law Hearts has been postponed and we will need to attend a meeting. We face expulsion with Law Hearts set to receive a bye.

This is amateur football ffs, Mike has played with us for years and this Australian side will be into a new season now. Mike played in their 2011 season. It seems absolutely ridiculous to me.

[monthedale]

hadders, on 15 January 2012 - 18:31, said:

What is Amateur football coming to when a team play a player who was away on holiday to Australia then comes home and all he wants is a game of football so the manager plays him only to find out he needs international clearance.Its amateur football for goodness sake.

Selkirk Loyal, on 15 January 2012 - 21:36, said:

Ok let's explain this one.

Michael Romanes has played for Selkirk Victoria since he was 15 (with a couple of seasons at the first team), he is now 24. He left to go to Australia in November 2010. He signed with a team in Brisbane in roughly March 2011 and played a few games. This side sent an e-mail to the SFA and Selkirk to get clearance to play as he was signed to a side in Scotland (us). Their season ends approx when ours starts so as of about August 2011 he was signed to nobody.

So he returns to Selkirk at Xmas 2011 for a three week holiday and plays for us against Langholm in the South Cup last week. Our manager hands in the signing on sheet to Colin Campbell on the way home and he says that the signing has been done correctly.

On the Sunday morning he phones our match secretary to say that when he went to put the form through, a message popped up to say that Mike didn't have international clearance to play in Scotland.

As a result we have been told that our game against Law Hearts has been postponed and we will need to attend a meeting. We face expulsion with Law Hearts set to receive a bye.

This is amateur football ffs, Mike has played with us for years and this Australian side will be into a new season now. Mike played in their 2011 season. It seems absolutely ridiculous to me.

So he wasn't just on holiday in Australia then?

Any player who signs for a team in another country must get international clearance before he can play in this one. This is the rules of football, and anyone running a team should know this. I fail to see how you can feel hard done by here.

[UptheA7]

To be fair to the League Secretary he has always advised BAFA clubs that they should try and register players PRIOR to a Saturday as any problems will flag up when he tries to registers the player online. IF you leave it to signing the player on a Saturday actually at the game then any problem will only show up AFTER the event. I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but a call to the registrations dept at the SFA to do a check on a player always helps. They are very helpful. I would always suggest that if you in are in any doubt at all then don't, it will only come back and bite you on the bum. Hopefully common sense will prevail but going on past cases I doubt it.

This post has been edited by UptheA7: 16 January 2012 - 12:39

[Selkirk Loyal]

monthedale, on 16 January 2012 - 12:21, said:

So he wasn't just on holiday in Australia then?

Any player who signs for a team in another country must get international clearance before he can play in this one. This is the rules of football, and anyone running a team should know this. I fail to see how you can feel hard done by here.

He signed and played a few games in the 2010/11 Australian season. We are now in the 2011/12 season. This is why nobody thought it'd be an issue. It wouldn't cross our match sec's mind to see about international clearance when Mike is Scottish, coming back to play in Scotland and not signed to anyone else!!! We are playing amateur football here, not trying to sign Harry Kewell!!!

And in reply to UpTheA7, it was unfortunate how the signing happened. Mike couldn't train on the Thursday night and we signed a new player that night. Both signings would then have gone through before the Saturday but as we didn't get Mike signed till the Saturday this has been flagged up.

[GAVT67]

An issue arises if you play the player WITHOUT gaining international clearance, you have no way of knowing if that player is carrying a suspension ruling from the country he has been playing in. A suspension just doesn't go away, unless it's a dated one for eg from 1st Aug 2010 till 1st Feb 2012. Happened a few years back with us when a guy came down to our pre-season training, I got all his details of him and e-mailed to the SAFA, We never heard nothing back from them for months and the big guy got fed up waiting and we never seen him again. He was from Nigeria if memory serves me correctly. Eventually after 6 months I got an e-mail from The SAFA to say they couldn't get any joy from the Nigerian Football Association so to just go ahead and play him. We'll never know what we missed out on.

[locharinn]

A team in Dumfries league played a player twice as trialist before signing but when they tried to register him, it flagged up he didn't have international clearance after playing elsewhere earlier in the year. So therefore played an in eligible player in these two games. They won one game and drew the other. Bizarrely the disciplinary committee have decided these two games have to be replayed.

[Ally1988]

Selkirk Loyal, on 15 January 2012 - 21:36, said:

Ok let's explain this one.

Michael Romanes has played for Selkirk Victoria since he was 15 (with a couple of seasons at the first team), he is now 24. He left to go to Australia in November 2010. He signed with a team in Brisbane in roughly March 2011 and played a few games. This side sent an e-mail to the SFA and Selkirk to get clearance to play as he was signed to a side in Scotland (us). Their season ends approx when ours starts so as of about August 2011 he was signed to nobody.

So he returns to Selkirk at Xmas 2011 for a three week holiday and plays for us against Langholm in the South Cup last week. Our manager hands in the signing on sheet to Colin Campbell on the way home and he says that the signing has been done correctly.

On the Sunday morning he phones our match secretary to say that when he went to put the form through, a message popped up to say that Mike didn't have international clearance to play in Scotland.

As a result we have been told that our game against Law Hearts has been postponed and we will need to attend a meeting. We face expulsion with Law Hearts set to receive a bye.

This is amateur football ffs, Mike has played with us for years and this Australian side will be into a new season now. Mike played in their 2011 season. It seems absolutely ridiculous to me.

Why then would you not do the same? I have my sympathies as international clearance seems a bit too much red-tape at Ams level but as others have said there are reasons for this. If it was me I would never play a player until confirmation was in place that his registration had cleared with the SFA, it isn't worth the risk.

[Selkirk Loyal]

Ally1988, on 16 January 2012 - 21:13, said:

Why then would you not do the same? I have my sympathies as international clearance seems a bit too much red-tape at Ams level but as others have said there are reasons for this. If it was me I would never play a player until confirmation was in place that his registration had cleared with the SFA, it isn't worth the risk.

At the time he wanted to sign with the Australian side he was still signed to us, season 10-11. That's why they got in touch with SFA to release him.

When we signed him last week he wasn't signed/registered to anyone so I assume the gaffer didn't think it would be necessary, neither did I. Just assumed that as he isn't signed to anyone, and he is Scottish, that he would just sign as normal.

Obviously, as previously mentioned, if we were able to sign him on the Thursday night it would have been flagged up beforehand. Colin Campbell got in touch before Saturday's game v Greenlaw which was postponed anyway to make sure he didn't play, but Mike's away back to live in Australia now.

[Marsh]

I'm in Brisbane just now and I've played a few games for Pine Hills Pythons, but its only been friendlies as its the start of the season. After reading this thread I'll be saying to my manager to get international clearance because as far as I know I'm still registered with Westwood BB.

[HibeeJibee]

It does seem ludicrous to have it apply to the recreational levels... but I suppose the problem is that 'amateur' football can be the top level or something near it in smaller and developing countries, plus someone who (for example) gets a ban or suspension from the game should take that with them even if they move.

[The Old Northerner]

HibeeJibee, on 17 January 2012 - 12:50, said:

It does seem ludicrous to have it apply to the recreational levels... but I suppose the problem is that 'amateur' football can be the top level or something near it in smaller and developing countries, plus someone who (for example) gets a ban or suspension from the game should take that with them even if they move.

It may be that the majority of countries have no distinction whatsoever between amateur and professional when it comes to player registration. England is just the nearest example where all players are either registered or not.

[Skyline Drifter]

Selkirk Loyal, on 16 January 2012 - 13:10, said:

He signed and played a few games in the 2010/11 Australian season. We are now in the 2011/12 season. This is why nobody thought it'd be an issue. It wouldn't cross our match sec's mind to see about international clearance when Mike is Scottish, coming back to play in Scotland and not signed to anyone else!!! We are playing amateur football here, not trying to sign Harry Kewell!!!

Well with all due respect it should have.

Anybody registered abroad is going to need international clearance to re-register here. Given that clearly he needed it to sign in Australia in the first place and your club was clearly consulted on the issue at the time then unless everyone who runs the club is different now it should have been obvious.

[HibeeJibee]

The Old Northerner, on 17 January 2012 - 12:53, said:

It may be that the majority of countries have no distinction whatsoever between amateur and professional when it comes to player registration. England is just the nearest example where all players are either registered or not.

Yes, good point, though FIFA and UEFA do have some kind of demarcation (e.g. it's what decides if a player and club can play in the UEFA Regions Cup or not, and didn't it affect the Hassan Kachloul affair too?). It can be a headache for EOS clubs along the border who sign players from England, and a complete nightmare for the Universities - who often get dozens of players from all corners of the earth.

That said they're often signing players of higher levels who definetely should be subject to international clearance... e.g. Stirling's squad includes many football scholarship lads, and they have to have Full or age-grade caps and/or have been professional at Full or Academy Youth level to be eligible.


R.e. Romanes... the problem is that although he wasn't signed to another club, his registration was still 'vested' (so-to-speak) with the Australian FA?

This post has been edited by HibeeJibee: 17 January 2012 - 13:07

[Skyline Drifter]

HibeeJibee, on 17 January 2012 - 13:04, said:

R.e. Romanes... the problem is that although he wasn't signed to another club, his registration was still 'vested' (so-to-speak) with the Australian FA?

Registration is always held by the last FA that a player was registered with until another applies for it. Such circumstances have caused higher profile issues in the past year such as when Stirling Albion couldn't give a trial last season to the Finnish player because his registration was still abroad somewhere (not Finland as I recall). Or Dundee's getting round the rules last season by having Lochee register Jake Hyde because he needed to have international clearance to get his registration into Scotland before they could use him as a Trialist.

There was another case that escapes me at the moment of a Scot who had been playing abroad and couldn't play in a trial here because his registration was held abroad until someone actually signed him (you can't get international clearance for a Trialist).

[charliechalk67]

Skyline Drifter, on 17 January 2012 - 13:29, said:

Registration is always held by the last FA that a player was registered with until another applies for it. Such circumstances have caused higher profile issues in the past year such as when Stirling Albion couldn't give a trial last season to the Finnish player because his registration was still abroad somewhere (not Finland as I recall). Or Dundee's getting round the rules last season by having Lochee register Jake Hyde because he needed to have international clearance to get his registration into Scotland before they could use him as a Trialist.

There was another case that escapes me at the moment of a Scot who had been playing abroad and couldn't play in a trial here because his registration was held abroad until someone actually signed him (you can't get international clearance for a Trialist).

please dont quote dundee ,stirling albion etc regarding this, it was selkirk victoria v langholm legion no wonder teams are toiling to attract players etc to give up spare time for amatuer football mikeys last game for vics was 14/11/10 ,never even considered international clearance, jesus christ it would be funny if not so embarrassing ,no underhand reasons for playing him apart from being a good mate and a good player back home looking for a game,

[leeb1987]

sorry mate but these are the rules. and you would have thought with all the problems selkirk have had in the past year or so with players being registered or to many on the bench, they would have learned to double and even triple check every signing and every team sheet. I know jimmy and Fred at the hotspur do this its just something you don't want to get caught out on. good luck for the rest of the season though.

[UptheA7]

Afraid the bottom line is never accept anyone's word for anything, a 10p phone call sorts it all out. Again if in doubt then don't do it.

[Siralec]

Well with all due respect it should have.

Anybody registered abroad is going to need international clearance to re-register here. Given that clearly he needed it to sign in Australia in the first place and your club was clearly consulted on the issue at the time then unless everyone who runs the club is different now it should have been obvious.
[/quote]


While I have sympathy for Romanes and his situation, I agree totally that the Vics need to have someone in post who knows the rules and regulations, in the role of Secretary. I can see Chalkie's point about a mate coming back wanting to play in his former team, but the rules are there for the protection of everyone. Surely a phone call to check on his status wouldn't cause a lot of bother, especially considering the Vics had already been docked 18 points for an administrative cock-up earlier on in the season. Even if the Vics Secretary isn't sure, there's enough help out there among Border Amateur Secretaries who DO know !!! A quick call to any of them who either ease their mind or set them on the right path. Tough on the Vics though, given the hard work they've put into getting themselves into the B Division in the first place. Lesson learned, guys ??


All the best to them for the rest of the season.