[charlieboy]

qos_75, on 17 January 2012 - 20:32, said:

Or the south for that matter.

parents who already give up any chance of overtime money ,give up all their available leisure time,and spend a fortune on petrol are now being asked to get their child to a school that will be on average 20 miles round trip without a drop of or pick up area needless to say this will be impossible for the average family i am involved with pro youth soccer and know for a fact that a lot of the very best kids in glasgow are going along with it but it will be impossible for them to attend if selected schools are not going to have best talent will become a lame duck instead of teaching a few get more performance coaches involved at pro youth level and scouting boys clubs and schools dont put all the eggs into one basket especially one with holes in it

[Hotelandywalker]

charlieboy, on 22 January 2012 - 00:46, said:

parents who already give up any chance of overtime money ,give up all their available leisure time,and spend a fortune on petrol are now being asked to get their child to a school that will be on average 20 miles round trip without a drop of or pick up area needless to say this will be impossible for the average family i am involved with pro youth soccer and know for a fact that a lot of the very best kids in glasgow are going along with it but it will be impossible for them to attend if selected schools are not going to have best talent will become a lame duck instead of teaching a few get more performance coaches involved at pro youth level and scouting boys clubs and schools dont put all the eggs into one basket especially one with holes in it

I agree with you, but lack of money will be the major deciding factor when recruiting new coaches I'm sure. The designated 6 coaches for each of the SFA regions are also meant to be responsible for organising special training for identified elite players who cannot attend the 6 schools. This training might only be weekly/monthly (I'm guessing how often) but would at least reach out to elite players in "remote" areas to some degree.

[charlieboy]

there is something like 60 million pounds being invested .It would be better to spend it wisely than frugally wasting it .I was at a meeting with Brian Mc Laughlin a few weeks ago who is the head coach for the Glasgow school. There is no travelling coaches to teach the kids whose parents cant manage to get them to these schools any kid whose parents are employed and not rich are being abandoned the ones that are selected are given a four year guaranteed scholarship even though it wont take that long to realise that most of them really should not be there You did seem to think that they would be accomodated in some way and i hope you are right. The sfa have got to keep closer tabs on a much larger field the coaching at most pro youth clubs is excellent .They only need pointed in the right direction and some follow up visit to help the greater number of kids get much the same training .I know that because this is the first year it is not viable to have a school solely for the sfa boys but maybe when they have the full four years and maybe a hundred or more pupils they could have a more purpose built school as it is at the moment they are being taken away from their friends and familiar surroundings split into groups of twos'threes' fours .etc Walking into strange classes where they know nobody and will almost certainly be resented possibly bullied This is going to have an adverse effect on their ability to have a normal education and all for only 5 guaranteed hours of football which will with the travelling involved will have an adverse effect at their club training Mark Wotte was asked by a woman on radio clyde on tuesday about the lack of help and clarity on the subject she was told that sacrifices would have to be made .sorry Mark but if you cant do better than this do you really think we will sacrifice our childrens education and normal lifestyle .What are you and the others sacrificing. i am sure you will be very well paid REPORT CARD MUST TRY HARDER

[Hotelandywalker]

charlieboy, on 25 January 2012 - 00:18, said:

there is something like 60 million pounds being invested .It would be better to spend it wisely than frugally wasting it .I was at a meeting with Brian Mc Laughlin a few weeks ago who is the head coach for the Glasgow school. There is no travelling coaches to teach the kids whose parents cant manage to get them to these schools any kid whose parents are employed and not rich are being abandoned the ones that are selected are given a four year guaranteed scholarship even though it wont take that long to realise that most of them really should not be there You did seem to think that they would be accomodated in some way and i hope you are right. The sfa have got to keep closer tabs on a much larger field the coaching at most pro youth clubs is excellent .They only need pointed in the right direction and some follow up visit to help the greater number of kids get much the same training .I know that because this is the first year it is not viable to have a school solely for the sfa boys but maybe when they have the full four years and maybe a hundred or more pupils they could have a more purpose built school as it is at the moment they are being taken away from their friends and familiar surroundings split into groups of twos'threes' fours .etc Walking into strange classes where they know nobody and will almost certainly be resented possibly bullied This is going to have an adverse effect on their ability to have a normal education and all for only 5 guaranteed hours of football which will with the travelling involved will have an adverse effect at their club training Mark Wotte was asked by a woman on radio clyde on tuesday about the lack of help and clarity on the subject she was told that sacrifices would have to be made .sorry Mark but if you cant do better than this do you really think we will sacrifice our childrens education and normal lifestyle .What are you and the others sacrificing. i am sure you will be very well paid REPORT CARD MUST TRY HARDER

I'm surprised and disappointed to hear what you say about Brian McLaughlin's remit. He is supposed to be covering the West Region which also covers areas right across Bute and Argyll as well as just Glasgow. The SFA Development Officer I spoke to is originally from Lockerbie and he told me that kids with his circumstances wouldn't be overlooked. No parent from Lockerbie/Dumfries/Stranraer is going to allow their talented youngster to travel to Kilmarnock daily. Maybe the original plans have changed? Unfortunately, money will always be the deciding factor in what is offered ...

[charlieboy]

Hotelandywalker, on 25 January 2012 - 08:07, said:

I'm surprised and disappointed to hear what you say about Brian McLaughlin's remit. He is supposed to be covering the West Region which also covers areas right across Bute and Argyll as well as just Glasgow. The SFA Development Officer I spoke to is originally from Lockerbie and he told me that kids with his circumstances wouldn't be overlooked. No parent from Lockerbie/Dumfries/Stranraer is going to allow their talented youngster to travel to Kilmarnock daily. Maybe the original plans have changed? Unfortunately, money will always be the deciding factor in what is offered ...

I tend to think that a large per percentage of the places have already been earmarked by reputation of certain kids at the top clubs.no matter how they perform in trials.Dont know about the other schools but reputation of holyrood has really went downhill in last 5 years 16 different languagesand different cultures amongst pupils interpreters in classrooms interferes with lessons a lot of trouble in playground and surrounding areas the area called Govanhill just outside front gates has been describes as the murder capital of Scotland. The SFA as we both hope, will nees to have a plan b and keep regular tabs and get togethers for the boys who to be honest are feeling left out and let down and god forbid disheartened

[HibeeJibee]

I think they have to give it a go.

On paper the idea works, but we can all identify shortcomings and aspects of it which are dubious.

Length of engagement is one, since a lot of players will not be good enough much earlier than 4 years in. Travelling is another. (Though I note they say they 'hope to add' 2 or 3 more schools in future, budget-dependant, so perhaps that could see ones added in Dumfries or Ayrshire, Inverness and Fife). Keeping talent not at the schools motivated and well-coached is another big questionmark.

If they give a go and it works, great; if they give it a go and it fails, that's a disappointing outcome, but at least they tried. Important thing is to evaluate this as it goes along, and tweak it or at worst bin it as needed... not wait until 2020 then call it a failure.


I don't think there's any doubt that a lot of the places are going to be filled with players attached to bigger clubs, as opposed to only those who impress in trials... but, this form of subsidisy of the big pro clubs is part of the approach. Paying £1000 a game to SPL clubs for playing 2/3 U21s, and commitments to part-fund the new SPL U20s league (replacing U19s) are other examples. Hope being, of course, that they go onto become top national team performers as well as club players.

[BTID]

Can't really see where the negativity for this initiative is coming from.

At the end of the day no one is forced to go to this school - if you make that choice then I totally agree with Wotte sacrifices have to be made. He made an excellent point - swimmers get up at 6am every morning to practice before school so it's all about being dedicated enough to want to practice more.

I don't think we can be critical of the sfa here, we've moaned about their refusal for change for years so it's only right they get a bit of credit when they do try new things. Appointing wotte, mcleish's report and now the schools programme - all progressive and hopefully will bring some positive advancement of our game.

[GEEG]

THE ST JOHNS ACADEMY WAS SET UP BY DUNDEE UTD WHO COULDN,T AFFORD TO RUN IT AND PASSED IT ON TO THE SFA UNDER THAT SUPER COACH CATHRO HA HA

[Dennis Bergkamp]

GEEG, on 06 February 2012 - 15:50, said:

THE ST JOHNS ACADEMY WAS SET UP BY DUNDEE UTD WHO COULDN,T AFFORD TO RUN IT AND PASSED IT ON TO THE SFA UNDER THAT SUPER COACH CATHRO HA HA

You don't seem very complimentary about the brightest young coach the world has ever seen?

This post has been edited by Dennis Bergkamp: 06 February 2012 - 23:44

[charlieboy]

Hello there BTID Posted 01 02 2012 Dont know what makes you so optimistic If you are going to have an elite school then you need elite pupils. As i said before average distance for parents to reach these school will be 10 miles then 10 miles back twice a day thats 200 miles then another 100 miles at night and weekends just for football . Add the fact that you would need to give up your full time work and get a part time job just to be able to get them there and pick them up. Sacrifice is one thing, doing the impossible is another. I take it you wouldnt have to make the journies, regarding mr wotte on radio Clyde he never said anything that Andy Roxburgh didnt say 20 odd years ago, embarrasing the way Clyde presenters grovelled to him. Regarding your analogy with the swimmers, you do realise that the kids would be outside and for large parts of the year it would be (pitch) very dark wont be allowed inside for health and safety reasons The sfa staff will need to make either a sacrifice or a detour and at least pisk these kids up in the morning and either drop them of or give them aball to play with until their parents can come for them

[scotchanwry]

BTID, on 01 February 2012 - 10:49, said:

Can't really see where the negativity for this initiative is coming from.

One reason all previous `player production` schemes have bombed is that people can`t count. In a previous generation we had around 400 clubs producing players, because all the seniors probably went through juniors, etc ... and we had a much higher youth pop in the `baby boom` years. This problem isn`t being addressed... and in fact SFA are aiming to further restrict Scottish Cup, without actually increasing the 42 clubs competing nationally in what passes for competition.

Elsewhere in Europe, they HAVE the much larger competitive CLUBS to produce the players .... not schools. Norway has a smaller pop than us but has TWICE as many players in HALF the total of SFA`s `pub team` system. And the only way we`ll recover any small production capacity is to VASTLY increase the national opportunities available, as well as funding to increase the community club and quality mark schemes to begin building REAL clubs. These academies are for SHOW ... nothing more ... because we do not have a sincere football organiser in Scotland ... or a competent government who might recognise the truth of what the UK Sports Minister said a year ago and recently posted on the FIFA site .... that " UK football is the worst organised in Europe".

Unless someone in the media or at Holyrood takes that issue up, we are going nowhere fast. And if any parent wants a square deal for their children ... take them abroad.

[scotchanwry]

BTID, on 01 February 2012 - 10:49, said:

Can't really see where the negativity for this initiative is coming from.

One reason all previous `player production` schemes have bombed is that people can`t count. In a previous generation we had around 400 clubs producing players, because all the seniors probably went through juniors, etc ... and we had a much higher youth pop in the `baby boom` years. This problem isn`t being addressed... and in fact SFA are aiming to further restrict Scottish Cup, without actually increasing the 42 clubs competing nationally in what passes for competition.

Elsewhere in Europe, they HAVE the much larger competitive CLUBS to produce the players .... not schools. Norway has a smaller pop than us but has TWICE as many players in HALF the total of SFA`s `pub team` system. And the only way we`ll recover any small production capacity is to VASTLY increase the national opportunities available, as well as funding to increase the community club and quality mark schemes to begin building REAL clubs. These academies are for SHOW ... nothing more ... because we do not have a sincere football organiser in Scotland ... or a competent government who might recognise the truth of what the UK Sports Minister said a year ago and recently posted on the FIFA site .... that " UK football is the worst organised in Europe".

Unless someone in the media or at Holyrood takes that issue up, we are going nowhere fast. And if any parent wants a square deal for their children ... take them abroad.

[Dennis Bergkamp]

The schools aren't being asked to produce players though? Players who are successful in their trials will be the best ones and more than likely they will be playing for pro youth teams. I coach for 5.5 hours every week, so my players recieve 247.5 hours of coaching over a year if we train for 45 weeks of the year. That adds up to 2475 if a player is in the Academy for ten years.

The SFA will remove boys and girls from school for a period a day (and a double period at one point) and will give them the opportunity to recieve around 200 hours of coaching every year. That means they are recieving nearly double the training they would otherwise. It is still not enough for the players to meet their 10,000 hours of practise that elite players need, however it is much better than not doing it.

We aren't producing players in Scotland because the players do not get enough training and do not practise enough at home, not because we don't let another 10 teams into the Scottish Cup.

[charlieboy]

Dennis Bergkamp, on 09 February 2012 - 16:32, said:

The schools aren't being asked to produce players though? Players who are successful in their trials will be the best ones and more than likely they will be playing for pro youth teams. I coach for 5.5 hours every week, so my players recieve 247.5 hours of coaching over a year if we train for 45 weeks of the year. That adds up to 2475 if a player is in the Academy for ten years.

The SFA will remove boys and girls from school for a period a day (and a double period at one point) and will give them the opportunity to recieve around 200 hours of coaching every year. That means they are recieving nearly double the training they would otherwise. It is still not enough for the players to meet their 10,000 hours of practise that elite players need, however it is much better than not doing it.

We aren't producing players in Scotland because the players do not get enough training and do not practise enough at home, not because we don't let another 10 teams into the Scottish Cup.

i dont understand what you mean when you say that the schools arent being asked to produce player .I thought that was the main idea.when you say the trials will determine the best players then i dont think you were getting my point earlier ,being that lots of the best kids wont be available ,due to lack of assistance from the SFA. They wont even be attending the trials. Totally agree with you about the lack of practice put in by kids nowadays I was a teenager in the seventies and i played more football in one day than the kids of today play in a week. Its so much harder to get them interested today. Severe shortage of public pitches unaffordable prices terrible weather and a not very impressive image doesnt help to attract future talent . We need some feelgood factor SFA ORGANISED YOUTH LEAGUES They need to be seen to be taking a wider interest I KNOW MOST PEOPLE WILL PROBABLY DISAGREE WITH ME BUT I THINK WE SHOULD BE MAKING OUR GAMES MORE COMPETATIVE

[Grant228]

So if we're pumping 60 million quid into this why are doing it so half arsed? :huh:It's been mentioned in this thread that even with these schools players will still be well short of the amount of time needed to become an "elite" player, I'm sorry but for 60 million quid we should be going the whole way with this.

[fitba]

Interesting to read this, as it's the first I've heard about it for a long time.

It's crazy that Aberdeen has been chosen, I presume, as the sole venue to cover the Highlands, since it effectively eliminates any promising youngsters from half of the country, and demonstrates the total lack of understanding of the difficulties faced by youth in the Highlands.
The distances needing travelled are far far larger than in the central belt. As an example, Inverness - Aberdeen takes, at the very best, 2 hours one way. Usually 2 1/2. A similar distance from Glasgow would be to Montrose, & any suggestion that parents and kids from Glasgow should travel that distance would be quite rightly laughed at.
And what about kids from West & North of Inverness, since Aberdeen is presumably serving these areas too, all the way outward to the islands. What chance have they got?

If the plan is to find & nurture the best talent Scotland has to offer, the first criteria absolutely must be to be inclusive for all, as best as can be managed. Aberdeen, much though it's a fantastic city, is perched on the far east coast & fails in this most basic concept.
To achieve this, I'd have thought use of the fantastic facility at Dingwall should have been first choice to cover the northern Highlands, and thereafter somewhere on the Moray Firth, maybe in Moray. Keith High now has superb 3g all weather pitches. A combination of these would go a long way to open up the entire country, by making travelling times, and cost, more achievable.

It's yet another central belt view of Scotland, it's an opportunity missed, and another generation from half the geographical area of Scotland are denied.

The £60m could be used far more effectively, and those responsible should be taking a long hard look at themselves.

This post has been edited by fitba: 14 February 2012 - 11:34

[weeredbook]

fitba, on 14 February 2012 - 11:33, said:

Interesting to read this, as it's the first I've heard about it for a long time.

It's crazy that Aberdeen has been chosen, I presume, as the sole venue to cover the Highlands, since it effectively eliminates any promising youngsters from half of the country, and demonstrates the total lack of understanding of the difficulties faced by youth in the Highlands.
The distances needing travelled are far far larger than in the central belt. As an example, Inverness - Aberdeen takes, at the very best, 2 hours one way. Usually 2 1/2. A similar distance from Glasgow would be to Montrose, & any suggestion that parents and kids from Glasgow should travel that distance would be quite rightly laughed at.
And what about kids from West & North of Inverness, since Aberdeen is presumably serving these areas too, all the way outward to the islands. What chance have they got?

If the plan is to find & nurture the best talent Scotland has to offer, the first criteria absolutely must be to be inclusive for all, as best as can be managed. Aberdeen, much though it's a fantastic city, is perched on the far east coast & fails in this most basic concept.
To achieve this, I'd have thought use of the fantastic facility at Dingwall should have been first choice to cover the northern Highlands, and thereafter somewhere on the Moray Firth, maybe in Moray. Keith High now has superb 3g all weather pitches. A combination of these would go a long way to open up the entire country, by making travelling times, and cost, more achievable.

It's yet another central belt view of Scotland, it's an opportunity missed, and another generation from half the geographical area of Scotland are denied.

The £60m could be used far more effectively, and those responsible should be taking a long hard look at themselves.

Agree with your post .Nothing at all in the Borders or Dumfries and Galloway which is a disgrace.

You can get to around 5 within a 45 minute drive in the Central Belt, yet other areas are ignored.
The people making these decisions should be sacked.

[afcthistle]

weeredbook, on 06 March 2012 - 19:30, said:

Agree with your post .Nothing at all in the Borders or Dumfries and Galloway which is a disgrace.

You can get to around 5 within a 45 minute drive in the Central Belt, yet other areas are ignored.
The people making these decisions should be sacked.

hello yes I agree nothing in the borders. Edinburgh and central belt is the key which is a shame.

[Dennis Bergkamp]

Some strange decisions been made during the recruitment process.

[Grant228]

There's a good bit of information regarding the SFA football academies on the Dunfermline website.

Click