[becks]

which has the best standard of football, EOS or junior?

[Davyboy26]

I'm sure this one has been asked before? Until teams played on a regular basis v each other then it's hard to say. From random games I've seen in both juns and eos in recent years I would say that the top 4/5 in the eos prem would compete well in the east super and maybe the rest of the prem + top few from 1st div eos would do ok in the east jun prem or be very competitive in the south div? Not seen much of west region juns to comment although I know they have good teams in your auckinlecks,meadows etc

[Buckrogers]

Juniors easy !!

[Grim O'Grady]

Seniors easy!

Mind I've only seen a handful of Junior teams games.

Grim

[Simplistic]

There are more football playing teams at the top of junior than senior in the east region. However there are more junior teams. The best footballing side I've seen this season by a country mile is Stirling Uni.

Make of that what you want.

[THE REAL DEAL]

You haven't watched LTHV in action then?

[Ginger]

Grim O, on 22 December 2011 - 00:00, said:

Seniors easy!

Mind I've only seen a handful of Junior teams games.

Grim

Grim, three words

Archie and Kingy Juniors ?????????????

[THE REAL DEAL]

Thats 4 words thicko

[wingnut]

Grim O, on 22 December 2011 - 00:00, said:

Seniors easy!

Mind I've only seen a handful of Junior teams games.

Grim

Bonnyrigg v Linglithgow,2nd half,you certainly enjoyed that,did you not,having watched the juniors this season at Bonnyrigg,i think the standard is better as iv'e not seen many teams get beat by big margins in games and i think the atmosphere is better at 90% of the games.

[newcastle broon]

wingnut, on 22 December 2011 - 09:23, said:

Bonnyrigg v Linglithgow,2nd half,you certainly enjoyed that,did you not,having watched the juniors this season at Bonnyrigg,i think the standard is better as iv'e not seen many teams get beat by big margins in games and i think the atmosphere is better at 90% of the games.

linLithgow v spartans scottish cup,were you a juniors fan then ?

Your just biased now for obvious reasons

going by the scottish results this season the juniors just edge it but i wouldn't say it was any better standards.

Top 4 or 5 eos could compete in the super leagues.

Haven't seen a junior game in ages, Do the juniors still have committee folk running the lines ?

Until this pyramid becomes reality i think threads like this (and there have been many) are a bit pointless.

[AllStars11]

Top East junior teams would beat top EOS teams if they played on a regular basis, just my opinion tho

[becks]

from what ive heard is that the top juniors have always been seen as the better level but it seems to me as its mostly full of big egos? where as seniors might not have the same support but have more youngsters and alot more teams trying to play football?

[wingnut]

newcastle broon, on 22 December 2011 - 11:10, said:

linLithgow v spartans scottish cup,were you a juniors fan then ?

Your just biased now for obvious reasons

going by the scottish results this season the juniors just edge it but i wouldn't say it was any better standards.

Top 4 or 5 eos could compete in the super leagues.

Haven't seen a junior game in ages, Do the juniors still have committee folk running the lines ?

Until this pyramid becomes reality i think threads like this (and there have been many) are a bit pointless.

I was like you Nookie,the last junior game i seen was Nitten in the Scottish agst Rob Roy a couple of year ago and i widny say i,m biased,i,m just going on what iv'e seen so far,having watched a good Spartans team for a few year,them and another couple would be up there with the Superleague but certainly widny dominate the way they do in e.o.s,and for the linesmen,no,it's the real mccoy,haha,i think.

[brucelee]

wingnut, on 22 December 2011 - 12:14, said:

I was like you Nookie,the last junior game i seen was Nitten in the Scottish agst Rob Roy a couple of year ago and i widny say i,m biased,i,m just going on what iv'e seen so far,having watched a good Spartans team for a few year,them and another couple would be up there with the Superleague but certainly widny dominate the way they do in e.o.s,and for the linesmen,no,it's the real mccoy,haha,i think.

Spartans, Stirling, Whitehil = Superleague Juniors
Gretna, Vale, Edi City = Premier Juniors

The rest of the premier would be top half of the district leagues. 1st division = top amateur.

[Grim O'Grady]

From what I'm getting & please feel free to contradict me BUT the Seniors are up for getting a progressive system to improve the standard of Scottish football (the pyramid), not sure what the Junior position is?

If you care about Scottish football then it's time to bring it in to the 21st Century. Getting the opportunity to play against better opposition is the way forward, I've seen it, just over 10 years ago I was watching football in the 2nd division (formally the old 3rd div) now that team was in the Champions League this season but it could have gone horribly wrong & they could have slid further down the divisions to "non-league" BUT they would still have had the opportunity to get back in to the Premier League.

Support the Pyramid.

Grim
P.s. Ginge, Kingy & Archie lit up the EoS for (at least) the last 3 seasons previous, so not good examples of the Juniors being the way forward, I liked Walker when he played for us, I believe he's also doing it for Bo'ness these days. I'm Seniors through & through. I check up on how our juniors are doing & yes I look out for Bonnyrigg but if Spartans no longer existed then I'd be up watching another Senior team each week.

[Craig the Hunter]

I think it's too hard to say what the better standard is when they teams don't play competitively against each other.

If you look at Scottish Cup results this year: Whitehill lost a VERY close game to the East Junior Champions Bo'ness in a game that could have gone either way. Spartans beat the North Junior Champions Culter (never mind the whole ineligible player nonsense, they won the game), and Vale of Leithen lost to who many people see as the best team in the West Juniors (which is generally seen as the strongest region) Auchinleck.

It seems to me a very similar standard at both levels. The better teams in both grades seem a similar level, the middling teams at both grades seem similar, and the worse teams at both grades would seem a similar standard.

Also, I'm with the pro pyramid group. I don't see it happening any time soon, but I'd love to see it. Grim's example of Man City is a very good example of how it works.

[Grim O'Grady]

Craig the Hunter, on 22 December 2011 - 23:27, said:

I think it's too hard to say what the better standard is when they teams don't play competitively against each other.

If you look at Scottish Cup results this year: Whitehill lost a VERY close game to the East Junior Champions Bo'ness in a game that could have gone either way. Spartans beat the North Junior Champions Culter (never mind the whole ineligible player nonsense, they won the game), and Vale of Leithen lost to who many people see as the best team in the West Juniors (which is generally seen as the strongest region) Auchinleck.

It seems to me a very similar standard at both levels. The better teams in both grades seem a similar level, the middling teams at both grades seem similar, and the worse teams at both grades would seem a similar standard.

Also, I'm with the pro pyramid group. I don't see it happening any time soon, but I'd love to see it. Grim's example of Man City is a very good example of how it works.

CtH did you see the article in the Scotsman today, looks very much like a goer in principle, here's the link.

Grim

[Craig the Hunter]

I hadn't seen that one in particular, but have seen a similar article a couple of weeks ago. It's the "club licence" that bothers me, still smacks of closed shop. But a step in the right direction at least!

[newcastle broon]

Grim O, on 22 December 2011 - 21:26, said:

From what I'm getting & please feel free to contradict me BUT the Seniors are up for getting a progressive system to improve the standard of Scottish football (the pyramid), not sure what the Junior position is?

If you care about Scottish football then it's time to bring it in to the 21st Century. Getting the opportunity to play against better opposition is the way forward, I've seen it, just over 10 years ago I was watching football in the 2nd division (formally the old 3rd div) now that team was in the Champions League this season but it could have gone horribly wrong & they could have slid further down the divisions to "non-league" BUT they would still have had the opportunity to get back in to the Premier League.

Support the Pyramid.

Grim
P.s. Ginge, Kingy & Archie lit up the EoS for (at least) the last 3 seasons previous, so not good examples of the Juniors being the way forward, I liked Walker when he played for us, I believe he's also doing it for Bo'ness these days. I'm Seniors through & through. I check up on how our juniors are doing & yes I look out for Bonnyrigg but if Spartans no longer existed then I'd be up watching another Senior team each week.

good post grim but to compare man city wi a pyramid system is utter pish !!!

I would say look more at your aldershots,maidstone utds and chester citys,all english fitba league clubs to fold under the pyramid system ? to see where such ambitions lie ?

Craig has a valid point in referring to whats involved licensing wise. A Lot of clubs just wont have the financial backing to survive ?

This post has been edited by newcastle broon: 23 December 2011 - 10:01

[Grim O'Grady]

newcastle broon, on 23 December 2011 - 09:55, said:

good post grim but to compare man city wi a pyramid system is utter pish !!!

I would say look more at your aldershots,maidstone utds and chester citys,all english fitba league clubs to fold under the pyramid system ? to see where such ambitions lie ?

Craig has a valid point in referring to whats involved licensing wise. A Lot of clubs just wont have the financial backing to survive ?

Newky,

I just like to throw a (Man) City comment in here & there to annoy any closets, I meant Accrington Stanley (exactly).

What exactly does the licensing involve & why is it a closed shop, I really don't understand?

Grim

[cmontheloknow]

Grim O, on 23 December 2011 - 11:39, said:

What exactly does the licensing involve & why is it a closed shop, I really don't understand?

It involves all clubs to constantly try to improve the way they are ran off-field and their facilities for matchday.

SPL, SFL and Highland are all currently part of the process. They are all under the Professional SFA Board, created in the summer.

The SFA want to create a pair of lower divisions below SFL 3, currently named Lowland and Highland leagues. A leaked draft paper a few years back called them Division 4 North and South. Both divisions will require clubs to be part of Club Licensing.

It's been rumoured for a while that SFA want the remainder of the SFA Full Membership to join in Club Licensing, as soon as possible. If they don't, then this whole thread becomes a bit redundant. SJFA and SAFA will perhaps be acquiring a number of new members as there will be no place of note in the SFA for clubs not involved in Club Licensing.

This is a silent revolution but it's not going to be bloodless.

This post has been edited by cmontheloknow: 23 December 2011 - 12:59

[Grim O'Grady]

cmontheloknow, on 23 December 2011 - 12:56, said:

It involves all clubs to constantly try to improve the way they are ran off-field and their facilities for matchday.

SPL, SFL and Highland are all currently part of the process. They are all under the Professional SFA Board, created in the summer.

The SFA want to create a pair of lower divisions below SFL 3, currently named Lowland and Highland leagues. A leaked draft paper a few years back called them Division 4 North and South. Both divisions will require clubs to be part of Club Licensing.

It's been rumoured for a while that SFA want the remainder of the SFA Full Membership to join in Club Licensing, as soon as possible. If they don't, then this whole thread becomes a bit redundant. SJFA and SAFA will perhaps be acquiring a number of new members as there will be no place of note in the SFA for clubs not involved in Club Licensing.

This is a silent revolution but it's not going to be bloodless.

Ta Cmon but I'm still a little baffled by what this licence entails, what is the criteria that needs to be met to be issued with a licence eh?

Also the bit about it not being bloodless does that mean there'll be clubs unable to meet the criteria? You've got to have some standards though eh?

Grim

[cmontheloknow]

Grim O, on 23 December 2011 - 18:20, said:

Ta Cmon but I'm still a little baffled by what this licence entails, what is the criteria that needs to be met to be issued with a licence eh?

Also the bit about it not being bloodless does that mean there'll be clubs unable to meet the criteria? You've got to have some standards though eh?

Grim

I think a good number of clubs will not meet the standard.

The criteria as of September can be seen here:

http://www.scottishf...s.cfm?page=1721

under 'SFA Club Licencing'.

Some things have changed since then, cover is now for 100 not 250.

Going by something said elsewhere, clubs will be denied access to the Scottish Cup without being Club Licenced. The present membership will be thrown out unless the comply.

[HibeeJibee]

Ultimately there are a lot of what-ifs... regarding the pyramid, in terms of the ideas covered in the papers this week, these include how much of a fight SFL will put up; how Highland League approach changes which essentially kills it off (particularly if Junior leagues feed Highland Super League alongside); how many clubs will get a license and decide to leave South of Scotland and - particularly - East of Scotland to form Lowland Super League; what the Juniors do as an organisation and as individual clubs. Regarding club licensing, these include what happens with Scottish Cup entry, and how many clubs might/might not be expelled.

For now, much is speculation.

At one end of the spectrum of possible outcomes, there won't be enough momentum, and nothing much will change.

At the other end of that spectrum, the Scottish Cup will shrink, and there won't be an East of Scotland league by the end of the decade.


EDIT: Regarding the OP's point about which is the better standard, it's a perennial debate, and you could find half-a-dozen different ways of trying to gauge it for starters. Ultimately the 2 don't meet, bar occasional Scottish Cup ties involving Junior champions/Girvan, so it's always subjective.

This post has been edited by HibeeJibee: 23 December 2011 - 19:12

[mickles 1981]

Getting back to the original thread.

The real difference between Juniors and Seniors is basically money...

I'm sure if you asked any Senior player why he moved over to Junior football, the reason would not be football development/progress.

I'm not criticising this position, but it does prevent a true football level comparison.

IMO, Senior football is more progressive in it's approach to playing football.