[printer]

number one wasp, on 14 January 2012 - 18:50, said:

The yellow for the keeper was probably right but if it was a centre half who made that type of challengehe would probably be off so was a close call.

Eh? What difference would that have made?

JUNIORFAN, on 14 January 2012 - 19:53, said:

Don't know what game you were at but it most certainly was not a shocking tackle . Can only get sent off for serious foul play or denying a goal scoring opportunity. Neither !! , also the player was not even injured . Yellow card at most. One way traffic from Annan in the second half but never had a shot on goal ! Why did Alloa stop playing in the second half ? Hartley 's tactics questionable to say the least !! Lucky to get away with the win

What was wrong with them?

This post has been edited by printer: 14 January 2012 - 21:23

[Waspie]

footie, on 14 January 2012 - 18:36, said:

Again IMO not a sending off either, as the centre half was about to clear therefore, not last man, yellow card was correct.

To be fair t he centre half wasn't about to clear and being "the last man" is irrelevant now anyway. From what I could make out the ref was telling the Alloa players that May's touch was taking him away from goal and as such it was not a clear goalscoring opportunity. I still feel the keeper was a little lucky though as May was past him and would have got to the ball first however tight the angle might have been. I reckon a good case can be made that it was indeed a clear goalscoring opportunity. Thought the certainly ref called the McCord dive correctly but must admit he did frustrate me at times. We had May penalised for the ball striking his arm when it could not have been avoided, yet a few minutes later in the same situation with an Annan player there was no free kick awarded.

Well contested game overall. Annan certainly had plenty of possession but didn't create too much at all. An awful lot of balls pumped into our box but not much in the way of clear cut chances. I was pleasantly surprised by how well our makeshift defence coped with all the high balls. We probably had less of the ball than Annan but did create chances. Cawley should really have scored just after the goal and the Annan keeper made excellent saves from Docherty and Holmes in the second half. In the case of Holmes he shouldn't have given the keeper a chance. Then there was the May foul incident. Given those chances created I think it was a merited 3 points, and I also thought we coped better today with the physical aspect of Annan's game than we have previously.

Fine support up from Annan today and a good buzz at the game. And the right result for Alloa this time .

[bsd]

Left the ground today saying, like many others, that if we manage to keep May until May we will win the league. If he goes back then we might still win it but it will be much more difficult.

Thought that the much maligned Harding had a good game today. As did most of the team against a big bunch of clogging farmers . Could have been a bit more comfortable but just happy to get the win and be on top again.

Heard on the way back down to the pub that there was a bit of trouble between one or more Annan fans and the ultras. Can anyone elaborate?

Referee was awful again. I know we slag them off most of the time but this guy really was abysmal.

[JUNIORFAN]

bob the tank, on 14 January 2012 - 20:32, said:

Ask Kompany of Man City about your definition of a red card!!!Only thing that saved him was he wasn't last man(just) and the referee was a clown.Annan were a bunch of hammer throwers who got away with leading with elbows,persistant pushing and blatant obstruction for the whole game.Don't come on here talking about tactics cos your whole gameplan was to bully and intimidate.A disgrace.

Kompany had 2 feet off the ground going in to the tackle. Rules of the game now is he has to go off even although he didn't connect with the other guy the intent was there and ref had no option. Read the rules. By the way I was a complete neutral at the game First half Alloa shaded it , second half went in to a shell and barely deserved a win. Annan missing Harty big time .

This post has been edited by JUNIORFAN: 15 January 2012 - 00:40

[number one wasp]

printer, on 14 January 2012 - 21:23, said:

Eh? What difference would that have made?

If it's a tackle that the Centre back would have got a red for then it makes a case for a red for the keeper.

bsd, on 14 January 2012 - 23:17, said:

Heard on the way back down to the pub that there was a bit of trouble between one or more Annan fans and the ultras. Can anyone elaborate?

As i was leaving the ground there was a group of young lads being guided out by security who i presume were the ultras then as i was crossing to the wasp centre side there was a young guy arguing with an older guy who preceded to tell the young guy to "get to f**k and stop causing bother" so i presume this is what was being talked about maybe not. If true though that's 2 or 3 games these ultras have been at and 2 or 3 times we have been talking about them they need to buck up their ideas and behave.

JUNIORFAN, on 15 January 2012 - 00:39, said:

Kompany had 2 feet off the ground going in to the tackle. Rules of the game now is he has to go off even although he didn't connect with the other guy the intent was there and ref had no option. Read the rules. By the way I was a complete neutral at the game First half Alloa shaded it , second half went in to a shell and barely deserved a win. Annan missing Harty big time .

The keeper didn't connect with the ball either and May was passed him so by your definition that's a red card.

[pidmoondo]

aye good day oot.. the star bar was good crack..loads of laughs in there
the fitba was ok thought we might have sneaked a draw..your young team
are a wee bit game but hey good luck too them..i think youll win the division
now if you put a run together..PH strikes me a good manager and u will or he will
go far..

[printer]

number one wasp, on 14 January 2012 - 18:50, said:

The yellow for the keeper was probably right but if it was a centre half who made that type of challengehe would probably be off so was a close call.

number one wasp, on 15 January 2012 - 01:01, said:

If it's a tackle that the Centre back would have got a red for then it makes a case for a red for the keeper.

I think you are even confusing yourself now. Your first comment suggests that the ref would have given red for the challenge if a centre half had made it rather than the goalie - which is a ridiculous thing to say.

Waspie, on 14 January 2012 - 22:42, said:

To be fair t he centre half wasn't about to clear and being "the last man" is irrelevant now anyway. From what I could make out the ref was telling the Alloa players that May's touch was taking him away from goal and as such it was not a clear goalscoring opportunity. I also thought we coped better today with the physical aspect of Annan's game than we have previously.

Fine support up from Annan today and a good buzz at the game.

That was exactly my view at the time. The laws specifically say that a red is for "denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards...goal". May was veering away from goal. Yellow was definitely the correct decision.

JUNIORFAN, on 15 January 2012 - 00:39, said:

Kompany had 2 feet off the ground going in to the tackle. Rules of the game now is he has to go off even although he didn't connect with the other guy the intent was there and ref had no option. Read the rules. By the way I was a complete neutral at the game First half Alloa shaded it , second half went in to a shell and barely deserved a win. Annan missing Harty big time .

Care to point me to where it says either of those two things in the laws?



This constant moaning about referees' performances by people who have no clue what the actual laws are is tedious in the extreme.

[pidmoondo]

number one wasp, on 15 January 2012 - 01:01, said:

If it's a tackle that the Centre back would have got a red for then it makes a case for a red for the keeper.



As i was leaving the ground there was a group of young lads being guided out by security who i presume were the ultras then as i was crossing to the wasp centre side there was a young guy arguing with an older guy who preceded to tell the young guy to "get to f**k and stop causing bother" so i presume this is what was being talked about maybe not. If true though that's 2 or 3 games these ultras have been at and 2 or 3 times we have been talking about them they need to buck up their ideas and behave.

am the older guy and your right i did tell them tae get tae, i dont mind them shouting the odds, who cares
i like a bit of banter as long as i dae get punched..

The keeper didn't connect with the ball either and May was passed him so by your definition that's a red card.

[pidmoondo]

good day oot for sems 40th.. the star bar is the pub to be seen in

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[Alloaultras]

All that happened was on the way out we were singing as we walked out two Annan fans ran at us, one of our boys wasn't going to let them just grab him so he pushed him back then the two of them got in a tangle it was nothing big! . Also, NWO you say we need to buck up our ideas ? Robert Wilson came over to thank us for behaving so well and just enjoying the football and having a laugh

[Lowlander]

Well thats me just back home. A great day out in Alloa and a big thankyou to Sem and all those who travelled and made the day so memorable. Fair play to the Alloa lads also. It cant be easy when you sound like the away support in your own ground.

Like to also say thanks to our conductor who helped rock the Star Bar and to Annan's bard for the photo.

[dunkindonut]

pidmoondo, on 15 January 2012 - 11:39, said:

good day oot for sems 40th.. the star bar is the pub to be seen in

Good to see both sets of fans mixing in the pubs with nae bother, that's what fitba' is all about, a few beers and a bit of good natured banter... Glad the Annan fans enjoyed their day oot even if the result didn't go your way!

This post has been edited by dunkindonut: 15 January 2012 - 13:19

[Waspie]

printer, on 15 January 2012 - 10:38, said:

That was exactly my view at the time. The laws specifically say that a red is for "denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards...goal". May was veering away from goal. Yellow was definitely the correct decision.

Would like to get your thoughts on this point printer, the very reason that May was veering away from goal was that the keeper had come off his line and fouled him. Had the keeper not done that then May was going to be through on him, heading towards goal, and in with a clear goalscoring opportunity. The touch that took him away was due to him getting to the ball ahead of the guy who took him out.

[number one wasp]

Alloaultras, on 15 January 2012 - 11:47, said:

All that happened was on the way out we were singing as we walked out two Annan fans ran at us, one of our boys wasn't going to let them just grab him so he pushed him back then the two of them got in a tangle it was nothing big! . Also, NWO you say we need to buck up our ideas ? Robert Wilson came over to thank us for behaving so well and just enjoying the football and having a laugh

Yes you behaved during the game and fair play to both fans it was a cracking atmosphere which is good to see at the recs for a change but my point was that's the 2nd home game you guys have been at and the 2nd time theres something happened involving you lot. Can we not have 1 game where you come and sing and have a good time without creating a talking point even if it's just a minor incident.

Waspie, on 15 January 2012 - 13:27, said:

Would like to get your thoughts on this point printer, the very reason that May was veering away from goal was that the keeper had come off his line and fouled him. Had the keeper not done that then May was going to be through on him, heading towards goal, and in with a clear goalscoring opportunity. The touch that took him away was due to him getting to the ball ahead of the guy who took him out.

This was my view of it also he was through clear on the keeper and took the touch to round the keeper who preceeded to take him out.

[snoop]

pidmoondo, on 15 January 2012 - 11:39, said:

good day oot for sems 40th.. the star bar is the pub to be seen in

Aye 5 star day oot pal, some scary looking men in that photo

[Into The Valley]

A lot of very valid points made on the game already.

For me, I thought it was a decent game between two teams who, largely, cancelled each other out. I remember thinking to myself that Annan aren't too shabby at playing the game, and I think the comments labelling them as hammer-throwers are a wee bit wide of the mark.
Yeah, I too thought that the number three and number seven committed a few niggly fouls, but nothing more than I would expect from our own.

I was impressed by their number nine's effort and movement (a poor man's Kevin Cawley, if you will). And O'Connor is always a handful.

From where I was standing, I couldn't say with any certainty whether or not the decisions regarding the foul on May by the keeper and McCord's fall were correct. I do recall, after the McCord one, looking up to see if the guy with the video camera was there though.

I thought that their keeper was playing a lot further up on occasion than other keepers I've seen. I don't know if this is just something he does or down to the fact that, in Cawley and May, we have two guys who are pretty quick and this was to help nullify any ball over the top. Borne out, I think, by the fact that the foul on May happened a fair few yards from goal.

i also thought that he could have done better at the goal, but obviously glad he didn't.

I admit too to hoping that the new guy on loan from Carlisle wasn't going to make a huge difference in their favour. Thankfully, apart from a couple of decent balls in, he didn't.

Despite Annan always being in the game, I can't remember any real scares for ourselves. In fact, we had the better efforts. One of which I thought Docherty would have scored from if the ball had just been a foot further forward from the cutback. Couple of good saves though.

All in all, a hard fought win with no failures - again.

Very pleasing.

[printer]

Waspie, on 15 January 2012 - 13:27, said:

Would like to get your thoughts on this point printer, the very reason that May was veering away from goal was that the keeper had come off his line and fouled him. Had the keeper not done that then May was going to be through on him, heading towards goal, and in with a clear goalscoring opportunity. The touch that took him away was due to him getting to the ball ahead of the guy who took him out.

I think that still counts, Waspie, although I'm not 100% sure. May was veering away before the actual foul was committed, although admittedly he was only doing so to avoid the keeper.

I believe that the phrase "moving towards...goal" is in there quite specifically to isolate certain situations and exclude them.

The guidance on interpretation of the laws says the following:

Referees should consider the following circumstances when deciding whether
to send off a player for denying a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity:
• the distance between the offence and the goal
• the likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball
• the direction of the play
• the location and number of defenders
• the offence which denies an opponent an obvious goalscoring opportunity
may be an offence that incurs a direct free kick or an indirect free

[laughing gravie]

printer, on 15 January 2012 - 20:30, said:

The guidance on interpretation of the laws says the following:

Referees should consider the following circumstances when deciding whether
to send off a player for denying a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity:
• the distance between the offence and the goal
• the likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball
• the direction of the play
• the location and number of defenders
• the offence which denies an opponent an obvious goalscoring opportunity
may be an offence that incurs a direct free kick or an indirect free

Are you trying to say that the clown ref on saturday had enough up top to comntemplate everything here? Or is it just easier and less paperwork to hand out a yellow card?

[Waspie]

printer, on 15 January 2012 - 20:30, said:

I think that still counts, Waspie, although I'm not 100% sure. May was veering away before the actual foul was committed, although admittedly he was only doing so to avoid the keeper.

I believe that the phrase "moving towards...goal" is in there quite specifically to isolate certain situations and exclude them.

The guidance on interpretation of the laws says the following:

Referees should consider the following circumstances when deciding whether
to send off a player for denying a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity:
• the distance between the offence and the goal
• the likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball
• the direction of the play
• the location and number of defenders
• the offence which denies an opponent an obvious goalscoring opportunity
may be an offence that incurs a direct free kick or an indirect free

Thanks printer.

As laughing gravie says it must extremely different for a ref to have to take all these factors into account and come to a decision within a few seconds. Gabrielle Marcotti listed a similar amount of guidelines in yesterday's Sunday Herald regarding two footed tackles. I'm glad I'm not a ref.

As for Saturday I do feel the goalie's illegal intervention denied May a clear goalscoring opportunity and that he should have been red-carded. Under the guidelines above I can why the ref decided to let him off with a yellow. There could also be an element of truth in what LG says about making the 'easy decision', which was a yellow card. Certainly don't envy the refs though.

This post has been edited by Waspie: 16 January 2012 - 09:29

[Bob30]

great result on saturday...took my daughter to her first game and she wants to go back. result!!

[printer]

Waspie, on 16 January 2012 - 09:27, said:

Thanks printer.

As laughing gravie says it must extremely different for a ref to have to take all these factors into account and come to a decision within a few seconds. Gabrielle Marcotti listed a similar amount of guidelines in yesterday's Sunday Herald regarding two footed tackles. I'm glad I'm not a ref.

As for Saturday I do feel the goalie's illegal intervention denied May a clear goalscoring opportunity and that he should have been red-carded. Under the guidelines above I can why the ref decided to let him off with a yellow. There could also be an element of truth in what LG says about making the 'easy decision', which was a yellow card. Certainly don't envy the refs though.

Definitely. I think they have a gut feel for most situations.

[number one wasp]

I'm not too bothered about the referee's decision now i would have been more annoyed if he had just given the free kick with no card at all but there's cases for both colours of card. Thought we could have won by 2 or 3 apart from a couple of cracking saves by the Annan keeper in the 2nd half.

[Father Barrys Sign (Top Half)]

printer, on 16 January 2012 - 13:00, said:

Definitely. I think they have a gut feel for most situations.

Even worse at a higher level with the frame by frame TV replays etc.

I didnt think McCords incident was a penalty, not too sure if he deserved a booking though. Having said that, if it was reversed I would be asking why the Annan player wasnt cautioned.

I didnt think the ref got a grip of the game at all- wasnt helped by the standside linesman who struggled to keep up with play and offered him no support. Lack of consistentcy for some of the pettier stuff on both sides.

Certainly agree that there are cases for both a yellow and red for the keeper- but regardless of the interpretation etc, if you're a goalkeeper and come steaming out your area fouling the opposing player who is right through on goal, you're usually fortunate to stay on the pitch as a result.

[number one wasp]

Father Barrys Sign (Top Half), on 16 January 2012 - 18:00, said:

Certainly agree that there are cases for both a yellow and red for the keeper- but regardless of the interpretation etc, if you're a goalkeeper and come steaming out your area fouling the opposing player who is right through on goal, you're usually fortunate to stay on the pitch as a result.

This was my initial thoughts and i stilll think that it was a red but i'll wait to see the highlights.