[The Old Northerner]

aidan-bufc, on 17 December 2011 - 14:50, said:

Yeah, but i think that will only happen if the number of teams in the league increase.

I think 15 (with one promotion place) is too many

[Fisherman]

HibeeJibee, on 17 December 2011 - 13:44, said:

At SPL level the season would've run January 15th to December 10th... and since Dunfermline v Killie was fogged-off it'd likely have been postponed to this Saturday... so that game could've happened anyway.

That's one of the problems which makes it a non-starter at SPL level, and due to promotion-n-relegation, one of the factors making it a non-starter at SFL level too.

You've lost me (the whole post). And what has the Dunfermline game got to do with anything?

[AlanCamelonfan]

I think he means in the super league

alan

The Old Northerner, on 17 December 2011 - 14:53, said:

I think 15 (with one promotion place) is too many

[The Old Northerner]

AlanCamelonfan, on 17 December 2011 - 15:04, said:

I think he means in the super league

alan

I've no doubt. But dingying the League Cup would mean losing 2 or game home gates. The Super League could accomodate a couple of extra teams to make up. But there will be knock on effects down the way

[RobRoyGuy]

HibeeJibee, on 17 December 2011 - 13:49, said:

Could a mod merge the 2 threads, btw?

Could you just stick to your own teams grade of football please




Only messing hibbe , this debate will come up every year and nothing will ever change , when the current dinosaurs die off sorry to put it as blunt as that , new dinosaurs will take over and have the same attitude .

No point getting worked up about something that won't ever change .

[HibeeJibee]

Fisherman, on 17 December 2011 - 14:59, said:

You've lost me (the whole post). And what has the Dunfermline game got to do with anything?

Dunfermline point was that a 'summer' season format at SPL level would've seen the last day of the league season be December 10th/11th in 2011, the season having began on January 15th - but as Dunfermline v Killie was postponed for fog, an equivalent would've needed to try again this Saturday. Equally, a St Johnstone v Aberdeen equivalent may still have been last midweek/the week before.

What I was saying was making a 3-fold point... [1] it'd be ludicrous for the SPL to adopt summer football when it would run mid-January to mid-December; [2] the fact it would run that length would thus still expose it to bad weather; and [3] that would infact be worse, as the last day of the season is far more susceptible to weather disruption in November/December than in April/May (there's also more liklihood of clubs being in Europe in the autumn v the spring).

[Tynieness]

for the love of god can someone please merge all the summer football threads and pin the bloody thread so as the same arguments don't have to be repeated month after month after month all over the site

[HTG]

A lot of wind and pish. HJ is right. Everyone else, forget it.

[jaun]

summer Football is the way forward, games of all the time in winter, cant train , lack of training facilities in this country, also players lose fitness levels because of the winter , also its not enjoyable playing an coaching in the winter , we should at least give summer football a go, games will never be of, u can play mid week games in the summer , training an development will improve, an more supporters will come out to watch games , thats what i think

[KirkyRobRoy]

jaun, on 17 December 2011 - 19:08, said:

summer Football is the way forward, games of all the time in winter, cant train , lack of training facilities in this country, also players lose fitness levels because of the winter , also its not enjoyable playing an coaching in the winter , we should at least give summer football a go, games will never be of, u can play mid week games in the summer , training an development will improve, an more supporters will come out to watch games , thats what i think

Yes yes, to try stop this thread going the same way as 864573 of its previous guises, can you tell us HOW you manage this?

Summer football would be nice, of course it would

No one can argue sitting on a nice summers evening watching a game wouldnt be,

However it is impossible without a ground up change, from the bottom to the top of Scottish football

And THAT is impossible to arrange, for the questionable benefits summer football would bring

I predict at least 10 pages on this thread, with posts and arguments going round and round, but very little actual fact and insight into how to arrange or work any of their grand plans

This post has been edited by KirkyRobRoy: 17 December 2011 - 20:48

[Mr Tee]

Ahh sorry guys i should have added, my point would be that summer football would be for amateur, youth, juniors, non league and semi pro etc.

I think with europe, euros, world cup etc the pro game will always be the same.

But for the everything except pro we should change it. For the guys saying about council pitch maintenance etc, dont make me laugh! Closing football pitches in june/july/august in a county when this is the best time for kids to be using them is nothing short of a disgrace. And in any case in midlothian that consists of letting the grass grow longer for a couple of weeks.

[Mr Tee]

And perhaps if there was no amateur youth etc football during a period of winter, those players might slightly boost crowds by attending pro games?

I know a lot of boys who go to SPL games if our amateur games are off

[HTG]

Mr Tee, on 17 December 2011 - 20:26, said:

Ahh sorry guys i should have added, my point would be that summer football would be for amateur, youth, juniors, non league and semi pro etc.

I think with europe, euros, world cup etc the pro game will always be the same.

But for the everything except pro we should change it. For the guys saying about council pitch maintenance etc, dont make me laugh! Closing football pitches in june/july/august in a county when this is the best time for kids to be using them is nothing short of a disgrace. And in any case in midlothian that consists of letting the grass grow longer for a couple of weeks.

I've seen your posts elsewhere and concluded that you're clueless - you said Tynieness had made a "post of the week on another thread when the people on here know he's an erse! This isn't kids football. Where would you draw the line in "semi-pro"? SFL1, SFL2 or SFL3?? How would a team moving from one of these to the other cope with the change in season? To answer that ... probably quite easily because they'd only get about 3 weeks off in December. What about the pyramid when it arrives (we really should debate that too ...).

My club more or less rips its pitch up in June/July for maintenance. That's why it copes a lot better than most with heavy rain. They can't do that sort of work in the depths of winter and the quality of the playing surface would soon suffer.

Football is the same as it's always been. What has changed is the attitude of referees and players to playing in the rain. A whiff of standing water and a game is off. Nonsense. If we can play on bone dry dust bowls in May/June we can cope with a puddle in December.

[Mr Tee]

I find it amusing on here that if someone has an opinion which is dif to that of others, they are clueless, usless, idiots etc etc.

Look, the weather conditions in Scotland can be extreme. Its more than a wee bit rain. Have you seen youth football in the deepest winter? 22 soaking wet freezing cold kids barley able to do anything on terrible pitches. why cant they play during better weather? And fine i accept that many in the juniors, eos etc have ambition and high standards as well. Its not perfect, but neithers playing 1 game in 12 weeks during snow/rain/ice!

But i just think we should give ourselves a better chance, if weather conditions are better at certain times of the year, use them to oiur advantage?

[HTG]

Mr Tee, on 17 December 2011 - 20:46, said:

I find it amusing on here that if someone has an opinion which is dif to that of others, they are clueless, usless, idiots etc etc.

Look, the weather conditions in Scotland can be extreme. Its more than a wee bit rain. Have you seen youth football in the deepest winter? 22 soaking wet freezing cold kids barley able to do anything on terrible pitches. why cant they play during better weather? And fine i accept that many in the juniors, eos etc have ambition and high standards as well. Its not perfect, but neithers playing 1 game in 12 weeks during snow/rain/ice!

But i just think we should give ourselves a better chance, if weather conditions are better at certain times of the year, use them to oiur advantage?

Nature of the place. I couldn't disagree with you more.

[Tynieness]

HTG, on 17 December 2011 - 20:36, said:

I've seen your posts elsewhere and concluded that you're clueless - you said Tynieness had made a "post of the week on another thread when the people on here know he's an erse! This isn't kids football. Where would you draw the line in "semi-pro"? SFL1, SFL2 or SFL3?? How would a team moving from one of these to the other cope with the change in season? To answer that ... probably quite easily because they'd only get about 3 weeks off in December. What about the pyramid when it arrives (we really should debate that too ...).

My club more or less rips its pitch up in June/July for maintenance. That's why it copes a lot better than most with heavy rain. They can't do that sort of work in the depths of winter and the quality of the playing surface would soon suffer.

Football is the same as it's always been. What has changed is the attitude of referees and players to playing in the rain. A whiff of standing water and a game is off. Nonsense. If we can play on bone dry dust bowls in May/June we can cope with a puddle in December.

The man obviously knows his football if he made that comment - you on the otherhand are a fud with a masters degree in fuddery - last time i try to get you a ticket for the cricket . bawbag

[KirkyRobRoy]

Im just not sure those advocating "summer football" as this great cure all realise just how closely related all forms of football are in our small country

I work at an SFL1 club, and know the correspondence between that level and juniors is fairly sizeable, we play against them, we scout their players, we use their facilities, we even share staff on occasion

By and large, Junior teams get their players from Pro-youth and amateur leagues, who in turn get their players from kids/boys club football.... so unless they also go to summer football, then that source of players would dry up, they would be playing in Winter, if they move to a junor club, would we expect them to play right through from their winter season through that summer season, with no break? Thats going to affect the players form, fitness and mental state. You can also ask the same question for the junior players good enough to move up to pro football....

You would in effect be placing an artificial break in a players career, go to juniors, and go round and round in the whirpool with no prospect of moving into other grades

What ambitious young player would ever want to make that decision?

This post has been edited by KirkyRobRoy: 17 December 2011 - 21:14

[wow-wee]

Iwas one of the old school saying we have always played our football in the winter and always should but now our climate is a lot more different from 20 years ago more rain and snow.Summer football should be played now we dont have to change the format you can start your seson in march close down in july as most people holiday in that month and play till november .There would be hardly any call offs maybee some in march and november but apart from that we would have 8 months to play you can play mid week games so that saves on training the scottish final can be played in sept or oct then finish the league in november or play the final when ever the teams agree on.As for when are we going to fix our pitch your pitch wont get worn from may right through to mid oct the gras grows all you will find is you have to water it more and put graass feed on ot and it wont rip up.the only problem is to start summer football the present season end around june so every team will have to be idle till next year so you can start summer football so that means no junior football for 8 months almost thats my take on it ps the irish do it so whats their ptches like i dont know ive never seen them maybe somone from there might let us know how they manage it??

[Kennie]

wow-wee, on 17 December 2011 - 21:16, said:

Iwas one of the old school saying we have always played our football in the winter and always should but now our climate is a lot more different from 20 years ago more rain and snow.Summer football should be played now we dont have to change the format you can start your seson in march close down in july as most people holiday in that month and play till november .There would be hardly any call offs maybee some in march and november but apart from that we would have 8 months to play you can play mid week games so that saves on training the scottish final can be played in sept or oct then finish the league in november or play the final when ever the teams agree on.As for when are we going to fix our pitch your pitch wont get worn from may right through to mid oct the gras grows all you will find is you have to water it more and put graass feed on ot and it wont rip up.the only problem is to start summer football the present season end around june so every team will have to be idle till next year so you can start summer football so that means no junior football for 8 months almost thats my take on it ps the irish do it so whats their ptches like i dont know ive never seen them maybe somone from there might let us know how they manage it??

Cotter, can you spare some commas for wow-wee?
I'm out of breath reading that.

[wow-wee]

Kennie, on 17 December 2011 - 21:22, said:

Cotter, can you spare some commas for wow-wee?
I'm out of breath reading that.

kennie english wiz never a good sbject fur me at the scull but kootin i wiz a lot bettur but what about my ideas comment on them

[Kennie]

Hi guys. One of the blazer wearing dinosaurs here.
I believe I've already stated this, but here it goes again anyway.
We do not run the Association we merely administer it.
We administer it by way of abiding by the rules and constitution laid down by the member clubs.

Here is a letter sent out from T Johnston of the SJFA to all regional secretaries in September 2010


8 September 2010

To: Regional Secretaries.

Dear Sirs

You will no doubt recall that at the Association's AGM I suggested that discussions / debate

take place at Regional General Meetings concerning a solution to the backlog of games at

the end of each season. Last season's spell of bad weather was, hopefully, exceptional but

did accentuate the problem. However, it is a perennial problem that needs attention.

I would respectfully suggest placing the following issues on your agendas might stimulate

discussions and possible solutions.

Curtailing the number of games.

Curtailing the number of competitions.

Should Superleague teams enter the Cup competitions from 2nd /3rd round.

Should the Scottish Junior Cup be decided over one game.

Change of season.

Whilst at one time 3 games a week over a period of time was acceptable, I feel that today

there is little appetite from players, committees, or fans for this.

I trust that your member clubs will welcome the opportunity to discuss these matters and I

welcome your eventual feedback.

Yours faithfully

T.A. Johnston

SECRETARY

The West region put this on the agenda for discussion at the general meeting of the clubs.
Below is the minutes from that meeting relating to the discussion.


WEST REGION of SCOTTISH JUNIOR F.A.

GENERAL MEETING - SEASON 2010/2011

30 September 2010

1. A discussion took place on a letter from the SJFA re suggested changes to avoid the fixture backlog.

Main Points raised and initial responses of the Delegates were:-

Curtailing the number of games - No Change

Curtailing the number of competitions - No Change

Should Super league teams enter Cup Competition's from round 2/3 - No Change

Should the Scottish Junior Cup be decided over one game - Some yes some no

Change of Season - No Change


As you can clearly see the CLUBS do not see any reason for change. As always there are pros and cons to both sides of the arguement, but it is the opinion of the clubs that count and they say - NO CHANGE.

Anyway I need to go my Big Wig is due out of the tumble dryer.

[HTG]

The climate is not significantly different. Referees judgements on what is deemed playable or not are different. We are seeing individual whims causing no end of grief. Dunfermline the other week is a case in point. Everyone had turned up - the clubs had incurred expense for the day anyway. How fvckin dangerous can fog be??? Does it choke you or something? That was a perfect example of when the game should have started and if it got too difficult to see then you abandon. On the other hand, the ref for the St Johnstone - Aberdeen game decided to let things run and see how it worked out in torrential rain and a howling gale. So these boys don't just consider the dangers to players.

The Saltcoats game sounds as though the pitch was no worse than Linlithgow. The match ref wasn't happy when he arrived today but he let the game go ahead and nobody had any difficulty keeping their feet.

It's never easy but we really need to rule out some of the psotponements which are made because the quality might suffer a wee bit. For people who remember white pitches with green lines and orange balls or players playing on skating rinks in baseball boots this is all a bit of a mystery. That in itself tells you that the climate hasn't really changed. But we have become a nation full of bedwetting pooves (at least in the refereeing profession!! ). By the way, none of this is restricted to football. Look at how we mis-manage our kids these days. They always played in the rain. Celtic won the European Cup with boys that played in the rain. Now we can't have the wee souls playing outside because it's cold??!!! Do me a favour ...

PS - Tynieness - you can stick your cricket tickets up your arse!!!

[Mr Tee]

KirkyRobRoy, on 17 December 2011 - 21:13, said:

Im just not sure those advocating "summer football" as this great cure all realise just how closely related all forms of football are in our small country

I work at an SFL1 club, and know the correspondence between that level and juniors is fairly sizeable, we play against them, we scout their players, we use their facilities, we even share staff on occasion

By and large, Junior teams get their players from Pro-youth and amateur leagues, who in turn get their players from kids/boys club football.... so unless they also go to summer football, then that source of players would dry up, they would be playing in Winter, if they move to a junor club, would we expect them to play right through from their winter season through that summer season, with no break? Thats going to affect the players form, fitness and mental state. You can also ask the same question for the junior players good enough to move up to pro football....

You would in effect be placing an artificial break in a players career, go to juniors, and go round and round in the whirpool with no prospect of moving into other grades

What ambitious young player would ever want to make that decision?

Yeh point taken. Well maybe we should just all change eh, the whole shebang haha

It just seems common sense to use the weather to our advantage, but judging by all this its never going to happen

[HTG]

Kennie, on 17 December 2011 - 21:36, said:

Hi guys. One of the blazer wearing dinosaurs here.
I believe I've already stated this, but here it goes again anyway.
We do not run the Association we merely administer it.
We administer it by way of abiding by the rules and constitution laid down by the member clubs.

Here is a letter sent out from T Johnston of the SJFA to all regional secretaries in September 2010


8 September 2010

To: Regional Secretaries.

Dear Sirs

You will no doubt recall that at the Association's AGM I suggested that discussions / debate

take place at Regional General Meetings concerning a solution to the backlog of games at

the end of each season. Last season's spell of bad weather was, hopefully, exceptional but

did accentuate the problem. However, it is a perennial problem that needs attention.

I would respectfully suggest placing the following issues on your agendas might stimulate

discussions and possible solutions.

Curtailing the number of games.

Curtailing the number of competitions.

Should Superleague teams enter the Cup competitions from 2nd /3rd round.

Should the Scottish Junior Cup be decided over one game.

Change of season.

Whilst at one time 3 games a week over a period of time was acceptable, I feel that today

there is little appetite from players, committees, or fans for this.

I trust that your member clubs will welcome the opportunity to discuss these matters and I

welcome your eventual feedback.

Yours faithfully

T.A. Johnston

SECRETARY

The West region put this on the agenda for discussion at the general meeting of the clubs.
Below is the minutes from that meeting relating to the discussion.


WEST REGION of SCOTTISH JUNIOR F.A.

GENERAL MEETING - SEASON 2010/2011

30 September 2010

1. A discussion took place on a letter from the SJFA re suggested changes to avoid the fixture backlog.

Main Points raised and initial responses of the Delegates were:-

Curtailing the number of games - No Change

Curtailing the number of competitions - No Change

Should Super league teams enter Cup Competition's from round 2/3 - No Change

Should the Scottish Junior Cup be decided over one game - Some yes some no

Change of Season - No Change


As you can clearly see the CLUBS do not see any reason for change. As always there are pros and cons to both sides of the arguement, but it is the opinion of the clubs that count and they say - NO CHANGE.

Anyway I need to go my Big Wig is due out of the tumble dryer.

Thank you Mr Wig - close the thread!!

[4everblue]

Summer football sounds gr8,but when does it start? For an example,the current season will finish mid June,so if u want summer football,the season will need to start in say march or april,which means nearly 9 months without footballl,is that a viable scenario,in my opinion,no.