[Gordopolis]

What's happened to the spine of our team?

Back in 2004, Berti Vogts had formed what looked like the spine of a team that would last for the next 10-15 years:

Gordon (rock-solid goalie)
Fletcher (midfield lynchpin)
McFadden (maverick, always likely to make a goal from nothing against any level of opposition)

...Seven (nearly eight) years later and all three are floundering. Gordon perma-injured, Fletcher with a horrendous-sounding illness (get well soon big man) and McFadden seemingly still some time away from recovery from a career-threatening injury.

Scotland have only three players in their history with seventy caps or more and I sometimes wonder why. Inconsistency of form and selection is one reason, but there always seems to be something like this that stops our best players in their prime.

Looking forward, who will fill in for Fletcher, McFadden and Gordon. Adam, Morrison and McGregor? Hmm, doesn't feel quite as solid.

Anyway, thoughts?

[bkay]

McGregor, Hutton, Badsley, Adam, Naismith(when he is fit) Fletcher(if we can get him back) is still a decentish spine. We just lack an decent center backs. Then you have guys like Bannan, Morrison, Mackail-Smith, Dorrans, Forrest(who will be a first team started in about a year), Snodgrass, McCormack, Brown, Commons, Rhodes who can all come in. We have a pretty strong pool of players. Just the manager I don't have any faith in.

This post has been edited by bkay: 15 December 2011 - 18:15

[nessies long lost ghost]

Apart from a weak defence. I think we have a very strong pool of players.
Gordon is a far superior keeper to McGregor. McFadden is quite a big loss. If these three hadn't picked up injuries, they could have well been on their way to over 75 caps each with still atleast 5 years in them at international level. It is a shame for them. Good luck to all three

[bkay]

nessies long lost ghost, on 16 December 2011 - 00:54, said:

Apart from a weak defence. I think we have a very strong pool of players.
Gordon is a far superior keeper to McGregor. McFadden is quite a big loss. If these three hadn't picked up injuries, they could have well been on their way to over 75 caps each with still atleast 5 years in them at international level. It is a shame for them. Good luck to all three

Gordon isn't far superior at all. The only advantage is he is better coming for cross balls. McGregor is a better shot stopper. Gordon is being made out to be alot better than he is since he has been injured. McFadden is stupidly overrated. Living of that goal in France, one trick pony who tries to do it all himself. Mackail-Smith, Naismith, McCormack are much better than him.

[gonzohiggy]

I would't say Gordon was far better but I have far more confidence in him than McGregor. Not to say McGregor's not a good keeper, just that I always feel he is likely to throw one in the back of his own net.

As for the spine of our team, I would say McGregor, Adam and Forrest are more than capable replacements. Forrest in particular looks an outstanding talent and is improving every time I see him. Wouldn't surprise me to see him linked with big money moves at the end of the season.

[bkay]

Onform Gordon is better than McGregor that I don't dispute but the way some people go on about how good Gordon is and how rotten McGregor is grinds my gears. Gordon was always prone to the odd error here and there to the point he lost his place at Sunderland. I agree with Forrest but I think he should stay at Celtic for maybe one more season.

[nessies long lost ghost]

McGregor has been at fault for 3 goals since the game against Ireland. He is a good keeper but Gordon is better.

How many mistakes has Gordon made for Scotland?

[bkay]

nessies long lost ghost, on 16 December 2011 - 16:07, said:

McGregor has been at fault for 3 goals since the game against Ireland. He is a good keeper but Gordon is better.

How many mistakes has Gordon made for Scotland?

Cyprus he wasn't at fault for the goal it was the full back who was sleeping and was a good finish.
Spain slack defending caused the goal, and keeper seen it late(like most of the panel and commentators said)
Cannot remember the other one. The reason why McGregor gets the stick he does is due to the whole "Boozegate" affair and he is a Rangers player.

[nessies long lost ghost]

bkay, on 16 December 2011 - 17:14, said:

Cyprus he wasn't at fault for the goal it was the full back who was sleeping and was a good finish.
Spain slack defending caused the goal, and keeper seen it late(like most of the panel and commentators said)
Cannot remember the other one. The reason why McGregor gets the stick he does is due to the whole "Boozegate" affair and he is a Rangers player.

I wasn't referring to the Cyprus goal.

Spain, Denmark and Ireland goals.

[bkay]

nessies long lost ghost, on 16 December 2011 - 17:31, said:

I wasn't referring to the Cyprus goal.

Spain, Denmark and Ireland goals.

My bad. Don't think he was at fault for the Spain game personally the defense let him down for that and saw it late. Denmark will give you that onenmark game bad position aye and the Ireland game I can't remember but tbf they were friendlies which I don't the needed to play(I'd have gave Gilks a game).

[McKee]

People need to stop entertaining the opinion of the orangemen when it comes to the Scottish national team.

[bkay]

McKee, on 17 December 2011 - 01:37, said:

People need to stop entertaining the opinion of the orangemen when it comes to the Scottish national team.

So Rangers fans aren't allowed opinions? Away and f**k yourself

[McKee]

bkay, on 17 December 2011 - 02:38, said:

So Rangers fans aren't allowed opinions? Away and f**k yourself

That's correct. Please refrain from posting them in the future. No one is interested.

[bkay]

McKee, on 17 December 2011 - 14:50, said:

That's correct. Please refrain from posting them in the future. No one is interested.

lolz

[Grant228]

bkay, on 16 December 2011 - 13:39, said:

Gordon isn't far superior at all. The only advantage is he is better coming for cross balls.

Gordon is far superior.

bkay, on 16 December 2011 - 17:14, said:

Cyprus he wasn't at fault for the goal it was the full back who was sleeping and was a good finish.
Spain slack defending caused the goal, and keeper seen it late(like most of the panel and commentators said)
Cannot remember the other one. The reason why McGregor gets the stick he does is due to the whole "Boozegate" affair and he is a Rangers player.

The commentators also hail every goal that is a mistake by McGregor as an "uncharataristic" mistake, it's starting to get a bit repetitive.


I love McGregor for the season where he single handedly kept Dunfermline in the SPL, but he really isn't as good as Gordon.

[bkay]

Grant228, on 21 December 2011 - 17:54, said:

Gordon is far superior.





The commentators also hail every goal that is a mistake by McGregor as an "uncharataristic" mistake, it's starting to get a bit repetitive.


I love McGregor for the season where he single handedly kept Dunfermline in the SPL, but he really isn't as good as Gordon.

Never said he was I said he was a better shot stopper than Gordon. Gordon has a better command from cross balls. I just get pissed off at the constant ripping McGregor gets.

[RB-Scotland]

I think they're pretty similar when it comes to shot-stopping.

[FC_1919]

bkay, on 21 December 2011 - 22:27, said:

Never said he was I said he was a better shot stopper than Gordon. Gordon has a better command from cross balls. I just get pissed off at the constant ripping McGregor gets.

If he hadn't made blatant mistakes this season people wouldn't rip him, Gordon is injured/out of favour so folk have forgotten his errors.

[Ludo *1]

bkay, on 16 December 2011 - 13:39, said:

Gordon isn't far superior at all. The only advantage is he is better coming for cross balls. McGregor is a better shot stopper. Gordon is being made out to be alot better than he is since he has been injured. McFadden is stupidly overrated. Living of that goal in France, one trick pony who tries to do it all himself. Mackail-Smith, Naismith, McCormack are much better than him.

He is, and whilst I haven't read all of this thread to see how this 'argument' has panned out, I'll put forward my bit. McGregor is a decent keeper, but he makes far too many mistakes and still gets lauded as 'great', when Boruc went through his 'dodgy' spell, he was considered a terrible keeper by all even though he was probably still the best in Scotland at that point. McGregor doesn't get that treatment, I have no idea why, as mistakes are beginning to creep into his game more and more often.

[Skyline Drifter]

bkay, on 17 December 2011 - 02:38, said:

So Rangers fans aren't allowed opinions? Away and f**k yourself

Of course they are allowed opinions. Don't take McKee seriously, no-one else does!

However, it's still true that Rangers fans do tend to significantly over-rate Alan McGregor who appears to be famous for his "rare error". He's a good keeper, an able deputy and probably comfortably our second best. But Gordon really IS far superior to McGregor in every way.

[Bri RCFC]

Gordon or McGregor isnt even debatable anymore, Craig Gordon hasnt been Scotland number 1 for years, he is finished. He'll never put a long enough run together injury free and bursting with confidence to remove Alan from the number 1 spot.

[Gordopolis]

Bri RCFC, on 22 December 2011 - 12:51, said:

Gordon or McGregor isnt even debatable anymore, Craig Gordon hasnt been Scotland number 1 for years, he is finished. He'll never put a long enough run together injury free and bursting with confidence to remove Alan from the number 1 spot.

It'll take some doing, but if Gordon gets fit, he will get the Sunderland no 1 spot back. I get the feeling that Martin O'Neill will favour him from his experience of managing Celtic vs Hearts when Gordon was the jambo's keeper.

In a nutshell, if he does become a mid/top side EPL no 1 again then IMO he'd have to be first choice for us. MacGregor is a very good, solid keeper, but keeping goal for Rangers or Celtic is really not the best yardstick for a Scotland keeper anyway - tested rarely by far weaker opposition. If MacGregor went to England then I'd be happy to let them battle it out for the no1 shirt.

It's just the long and arduous road to getting that no 1 spot back (and Mcfadden getting a regular game and Fletcher conquering this awful illness) that feels really frustrating for me as a fan - why can't we have a couple of 100-cap ever-presents to base our team around without them suffering obliterated pelvises and the like every 5 minutes?

[itzdrk]

gordon - woulda been a big loss if we didnt have a goalie like mcgregor
fletcher - huge loss any smaller nation would struggle without a player of his EFFORT..wish i could say quality
mcfadden- no loss atall infact better without

[Savage Henry]

Bri RCFC, on 22 December 2011 - 12:51, said:

Gordon or McGregor isnt even debatable anymore, Craig Gordon hasnt been Scotland number 1 for years, he is finished. He'll never put a long enough run together injury free and bursting with confidence to remove Alan from the number 1 spot.

You think so? A move away from Sunderland, to a club where the medics know what they are doing, could do wonders for the guy. He's clearly going to Celtic in the summer, however.

[craigkillie]

You've been predicting that he'll move to Celtic every summer since I joined the site.

I suppose you'll be right sometime.