[Ad Lib]

SodjesSixteenIncher, on 28 November 2011 - 21:39, said:

Because the people employed as politicians in Edinburgh are far more representative of the political outlook that people in Scotland have.

And?

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We're living under a Conservative Government

No we're not.

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which didn't need practically anyone in one of the UK's countries to vote for them in order to get into power.

And? Shetland and Ornkey have voted steadfastly Liberal/Liberal Democrat for 60 years and yet has had not a single Liberal Democrat government in that period.

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Think it's really up the unionists to explain how that is possibly fair, first and foremost.

How is it unfair? This is how democracy works. And I say that as someone who as things are will vote for separation.

This post has been edited by Ad Lib: 28 November 2011 - 21:55

[xbl]

H_B, on 28 November 2011 - 20:18, said:

Really?

So "Scotland" all want the same thing do we?

Isn't "Falkirk" best placed to know what I want?

Every single time!

Next up from you,independence for Shetland!

[ss..schlecht]

Dean Court, on 28 November 2011 - 20:51, said:

BBC's Panorama is currently doing the SNP's work for them by demonstrating the unionist parties' love for PFI and the corruption that goes with this scheme that is rightly condemned by the SNP.

Reading some of the pish spouted on here you would think the SNP are as white as the driven snow, only in politics for altruistic reasons. The are as self serving as any other political party.

[H_B]

SodjesSixteenIncher, on 28 November 2011 - 21:39, said:

Because the people employed as politicians in Edinburgh are far more representative of the political outlook that people in Scotland have.

"People in Scotland" have vastly different political outlooks, depending on what part of the nation you live in. The political and social outlook in Stonehaven and that of Falkirk are very different.

Scotland is a nation of very very different people united only by a patch of grass. There's even parts of the nation where it's a struggle for someone from the central belt to understand what people are saying. I'm looking at you here Forfar.

The government in Edinburgh do not know best or even better. No government does.

[BerwickMad]

xbl, on 28 November 2011 - 22:08, said:

Every single time!

Next up from you,independence for Shetland!

Great tactic. Every time someone presents a decent argument against separatism you treat their valid point as a joke as you can't argue against it.

[Scary Bear]

BerwickMad, on 29 November 2011 - 08:18, said:

Great tactic. Every time someone presents a decent argument against separatism you treat their valid point as a joke as you can't argue against it.

Possibly because he doesn't see it as a decent argument.

[xbl]

BerwickMad, on 29 November 2011 - 08:18, said:

Great tactic. Every time someone presents a decent argument against separatism you treat their valid point as a joke as you can't argue against it.

It IS a joke though. People have discussed it with him since 2006, and he's heard a million and one points. Each time, he prefers not pretend to have not heard, and resets himself. It isn't a serious point he's making, if it was, he would have developed it by now.

[NewBornBairn]

Don't the SNP believe Brussels knows best though?

The EU is a strong argument against independence. They've been looking to get their hands on North Sea Oil for some time, hoping it would help strengthen the Euro amongst other things. http://www.mconnarty...th-sea-oil.html

72 British MEPs have managed to keep the EU at bay. After Independence, Scotland would have 6 and you can be damn sure English support would shift to the EU taking control.

Scots would be Brussel's bitches. Too small to have any real influence, the idea that 6 representatives in the EU Parliament would be anything like as effective as 59 in Westminster is bizarre.

This post has been edited by NewBornBairn: 29 November 2011 - 08:49

[xbl]

NewBornBairn, on 29 November 2011 - 08:37, said:

Don't the SNP believe Brussels knows best though?

No more, than, say, Britain, already does.

[deky]

H_B, on 28 November 2011 - 20:18, said:

Really?

So "Scotland" all want the same thing do we?

Isn't "Falkirk" best placed to know what I want?

To be fair, i did say "may" know best, but feel free to seperate Falkirk from the rest of scotland.

How many questions will be in your referendum?

How will you fund your army?

BerwickMad, on 29 November 2011 - 08:18, said:

Great tactic. Every time someone presents a decent argument against separatism you treat their valid point as a joke as you can't argue against it.

That wasn't a decent argument, it was a pish throw away remark which has been well worn.

[Gordon EF]

NewBornBairn, on 29 November 2011 - 08:37, said:

Don't the SNP believe Brussels knows best though?

The EU is a strong argument against independence. They've been looking to get their hands on North Sea Oil for some time, hoping it would help strengthen the Euro amongst other things. http://www.mconnarty...th-sea-oil.html

72 British MEPs have managed to keep the EU at bay. After Independence, Scotland would have 6 and you can be damn sure English support would shift to the EU taking control.

Scots would be Brussel's bitches. Too small to have any real influence, the idea that 6 representatives in the EU Parliament would be anything like as effective as 59 in Westminster is bizarre.

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Speaking afterwards, Michael Connarty said, “I intend to keep a close eye on what the government does on this matter. I don’t want to see any compromise on total control over our North Sea oil and gas regime.”

"It's oor oil!!!"

Or should I say "It's our oil" because he's a unionist?

This post has been edited by Gordon EF: 29 November 2011 - 08:57

[xbl]

I wonder if the EU would unilaterally redraw our borders to suit themselves, you know, like London did in 1999...

[BerwickMad]

xbl, on 29 November 2011 - 08:34, said:

It IS a joke though. People have discussed it with him since 2006, and he's heard a million and one points. Each time, he prefers not pretend to have not heard, and resets himself. It isn't a serious point he's making, if it was, he would have developed it by now.

I don't see how it's not a serious point. This island could be devided up in so many different way politically. You're no more or
less hard done by than me with the current political system. It's just as valid to say Falkirk
isn't getting what it's voting for as Scotland. All this London knows best shit. Someone
from Norwich, Keswick or Penzance could use the same put down.

I think your problem is, unlike most people, who develop their political views through experience and weighing things up against each other, you from the outset clung to a romantic notion of Scottish independence. Rather than think about the arguments before coming to an opinion, you just find anything and everything to back up that romantic notion. Scottish independence may happen, but don't pretend you've considered everything and come up with some conclusions. It's part of the reason you're considered a joke figure on here and many of the uneducated sheep latch onto you.

[NewBornBairn]

xbl, on 29 November 2011 - 09:01, said:

I wonder if the EU would unilaterally redraw our borders to suit themselves, you know, like London did in 1999...

And the SNP, being Scottish patriots, screamed blue murder at the time and dominated the media with protests? Since the evil deed was did, they've campaigned tirelessly for a restoration of Scottish borders, constantly reminding Scots of the act?

What do you mean, no?

Are you saying the SNP, the people who say they will ensure a strong voice for Scotland in Europe, aren't raising a squeak at this?

[xbl]

Actually, first of all, it wasn't announced at the time, it was only found out by the SNP. Since then, yes, they have mentioned it, but if they do, then they are accused of things like "picking fights". Also, the redrawing is (I think) illegal under EU law, so upon independence, we easily can challenge it. Until then, better to focus on the positives.

Your point is incredibly confused here, although I'm impressed that you've turned a sneaky redrawing of our borders into an argument against the SNP.

[NewBornBairn]

Confused?

England redraws Scottish borders and the SNP "mentions" it?

Awesome.

[H_B]

BerwickMad, on 29 November 2011 - 09:06, said:

It's just as valid to say Falkirk isn't getting what it's voting for as Scotland.

It's just laughable to pretend that "Scotland" is some political entity with a shared outlook on, well, anything. It's a disparate group of people who share a language and little else. I'm certainly completely unwilling to claim any shared connection with the majority of people I've met in Falkirk. They are mainly total arseholes.

For me, London actually does know best currently, compared to Edinburgh, given that I voted Lib Dem in the GE. So, for the first time since I started voting, I voted for the party in (at least partial) power.

Even looking at Falkirk, humorously for years under Central Regional control, there was a feeling in Falkirk that decisions benefitted Stirling (no really!) and that the preponderance of money and influence was held there.

[xbl]

NewBornBairn, on 29 November 2011 - 09:19, said:

Confused?

England redraws Scottish borders and the SNP "mentions" it?

Awesome.

No, they revealed it. London "forgot" to mention it themselves. But hey, they know best right? Your attempted "point" about the SNP is a bit laughable. Is it meant to be an argument for the Union?

And why does London believe that Brussels knows best?

[Pink Freud]

xbl said:

1322558665[/url]' post='5775895']
No, they revealed it. London "forgot" to mention it themselves. But hey, they know best right? Your attempted "point" about the SNP is a bit laughable. Is it meant to be an argument for the Union?

And why does London believe that Brussels knows best?

Not so far as the Euro's concerned, and that's my big concern for Scotland. Come to think on it, I may have mentioned this before, so carry on.

[thepaisleypanda]

Ad Lib, on 28 November 2011 - 21:54, said:

And? Shetland and Ornkey have voted steadfastly Liberal/Liberal Democrat for 60 years and yet has had not a single Liberal Democrat government in that period.

We've got one just now! - It isn't a Tory government at Westminster!

[xbl]

Pink Freud, on 29 November 2011 - 09:34, said:

Not so far as the Euro's concerned, and that's my big concern for Scotland. Come to think on it, I may have mentioned this before, so carry on.

The SNP believe in independence in Europe. Just like every London government for the last few decades. They also believe in letting the people decide on the Euro, something that London doesn't.

[flyingscot]

xbl, on 29 November 2011 - 09:24, said:

No, they revealed it. London "forgot" to mention it themselves. But hey, they know best right? Your attempted "point" about the SNP is a bit laughable. Is it meant to be an argument for the Union?

And why does London believe that Brussels knows best?

Money and influence probably.

I'd personally be happy to be like Norway. Participate in the EEA and defence matters, but retain out own currency and operate outside the EU. If Norway can manage quite happily so could we. I've never understood why we want to get rid of London in exchange for Brussels.

[Reynard]

xbl, on 29 November 2011 - 09:38, said:

The SNP believe in independence in Europe. Just like every London government for the last few decades. They also believe in letting the people decide on the Euro, something that London doesn't.

Why? They have never really given a good reason for this or tried to articulate it. In fact they never mention it at all now. The UK has been on the EU bacon slicer for near enough 40 years now having power taken away bit by bit. Why would anyone want Scotland to go for that especially when they have witnessed the current disaster unfolding and the total power grab by faceless Euro elites. Scotland could be uniquley different and a much better place to do business even than across our border. We could have an attractive tax regime to attract investment from outside and encourage growth from inside, but instead, apparently, we'd rather join a union that genuinely is falling to pieces? Madness. Its the one thing I cannot understand with the SNP. Why fight for certain political powers and then hand them away almost immediately?

[xbl]

But we wouldn't be "exchanging" at all. London already believes that Brussels knows best! We'd be getting rid of one of the three layers of government.

[deky]

flyingscot, on 29 November 2011 - 09:55, said:

Money and influence probably.

I'd personally be happy to be like Norway. Participate in the EEA and defence matters, but retain out own currency and operate outside the EU. If Norway can manage quite happily so could we. I've never understood why we want to get rid of London in exchange for Brussels.

Neither have I.

Reynard, on 29 November 2011 - 09:56, said:

Why? They have never really given a good reason for this or tried to articulate it. In fact they never mention it at all now. The UK has been on the EU bacon slicer for near enough 40 years now having power taken away bit by bit. Why would anyone want Scotland to go for that especially when they have witnessed the current disaster unfolding and the total power grab by faceless Euro elites. Scotland could be uniquley different and a much better place to do business even than across our border. We could have an attractive tax regime to attract investment from outside and encourage growth from inside, but instead, apparently, we'd rather join a union that genuinely is falling to pieces? Madness. Its the one thing I cannot understand with the SNP. Why fight for certain political powers and then hand them away almost immediately?

I totally agree with this too. I don't want to be ruled from london, but i definately don't want to be ruled from Brussels. I may be a staunch Nationalist but given the choice between britain and Europe I'd pick britian and tell Europe to go f**k itself.

I am a little Scotlander.