[Colkitto]

This story appeared on the BBC Scotland website at the weekend.

Scotland Independence uncertainty "Risk to Investment" http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-15908948

When you actually read the article and the comments made by Malcolm Naish it doesn't actually go with the headline.

This was picked up by Newsnet Scotland http://newsnetscotla...ing-businessman


We also have a BBC Scotland correspondent in Brazil for the visit of Scotland Secretary Michael Moore. We even have up to date Tweets from him and I'll bet a fair bit of News coverage on the TV bulletins.
No Correspondent was sent to Qatar fro the First Ministers visit, nor was it reported to any great extent on BBC Scotland news.

[deky]

Colkitto, on 28 November 2011 - 10:25, said:

This story appeared on the BBC Scotland website at the weekend.

Scotland Independence uncertainty "Risk to Investment" http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-15908948

When you actually read the article and the comments made by Malcolm Naish it doesn't actually go with the headline.

This was picked up by Newsnet Scotland http://newsnetscotla...ing-businessman


We also have a BBC Scotland correspondent in Brazil for the visit of Scotland Secretary Michael Moore. We even have up to date Tweets from him and I'll bet a fair bit of News coverage on the TV bulletins.
No Correspondent was sent to Qatar fro the First Ministers visit, nor was it reported to any great extent on BBC Scotland news.

Unfortunately it's hardly surprising.

The unionist propoganda is just beginging.

They will be telling us we'll all starve to death in an independent country soon. Sadly many will believe this.

[TartanArmani]

No to independence!

[Colkitto]

TartanArmani, on 28 November 2011 - 10:45, said:

No to independence!

[uni]

TartanArmani, on 28 November 2011 - 10:45, said:

No to independence!

That's me convinced.

Anyways back to the point the BBC is supposed to be neutral however they have not been for years now and have resorted to telling lies in many cases (especially when talking about countries like Venezuela and Cuba). They do seem to have a unionist bias however I was disgusted to see Alex Salmond rubbing shoulders with the aristocracy of Qatar. Qatar is not a country we want to be like where women have no rights, the death penalty for homosexuality and slave labour is the backbone of most people's wealth oh and it's not a democracy and to top it all of they have a monarchy, all things I do not want an Independent Scotland to be like.

(I know I've just gone off on one there, sorry)

[drs]

FREEDOM!!!
from the BBC!
from silly threads, the BBC will have sent someone to Brazil as a UK Governent minister is still far more important than the FM of a backwater region of the UK like Scotland.

[thepaisleypanda]

TartanArmani, on 28 November 2011 - 10:45, said:

No to independence!

Fair enough!
But, why YES to unionism? Mr Tartanarmani

[xbl]

Why oh why won't we Scotch Know Our Place?

[thepaisleypanda]

xbl, on 28 November 2011 - 11:18, said:

Why oh why won't we Scotch Know Our Place?

Because we are too wee & too stupid (apparently)

[thepaisleypanda]

Even with the mediums such as the BBC at their diposal, I am STILL waiting to hear a good case for unionism?

[H_B]

uni, on 28 November 2011 - 11:06, said:

have resorted to telling lies in many cases (especially when talking about countries like Venezuela and Cuba).

Such as?

[Colkitto]

Tom Harris going off on one in the Holyrood Daily holyrood.com/.../...

On Cyber-Nat bullying Harris suggested that SNP officials were aware of party members who he accused of spreading “vitriol” on the internet.

Harris said: “The level of vitriol on the internet from Nats who believe that by disagreeing with them you are a traitor, or a quisling, or you are a bad person; most of them do believe that. They tend to cover it up.

“The SNP [as an] organisation always says, ‘nothing to do with us’ – of course they are, they just used pseudonyms so you can’t prove whether they’re SNP members or not. There’s a lot of bullying on the internet, and that kind of bullying is being used to a huge extent by the Nationalists.

I know people say, ‘there’s just as much antagonism on the Labour side’ and ‘Labour people are just as nasty’ – that’s a lie, that’s wrong, and it’s demonstrably wrong.”

If he can't prove they are SNP members then that's some accusation to make without the slightest proof that they are!

[archie guevara]

Colkitto, on 28 November 2011 - 11:44, said:

Tom Harris going off on one in the Holyrood Daily holyrood.com/.../...

On Cyber-Nat bullying Harris suggested that SNP officials were aware of party members who he accused of spreading "vitriol" on the internet.

Harris said: "The level of vitriol on the internet from Nats who believe that by disagreeing with them you are a traitor, or a quisling, or you are a bad person; most of them do believe that. They tend to cover it up.

"The SNP [as an] organisation always says, 'nothing to do with us' – of course they are, they just used pseudonyms so you can't prove whether they're SNP members or not. There's a lot of bullying on the internet, and that kind of bullying is being used to a huge extent by the Nationalists.

I know people say, 'there's just as much antagonism on the Labour side' and 'Labour people are just as nasty' – that's a lie, that's wrong, and it's demonstrably wrong."

If he can't prove they are SNP members then that's some accusation to make without the slightest proof that they are!

There are definitely elements who purport to support the SNP and who indulge in harrying Labour politicians online. You only have to look at Tom Harris' twitter account to see that for yourself, or at the comments on any Newsnet page to see the measure of them. The question I have for those people is why do it? All it does is fuel the flames. It would be far better if good humour, logic and intellect were used. It's a real shame that the SNP has its own Vanguard Bears.

[Pink Freud]

thepaisleypanda, on 28 November 2011 - 11:41, said:

Even with the mediums such as the BBC at their diposal, I am STILL waiting to hear a good case for unionism?

And you won't because there no longer is a positive reason for staying.

Well there is, but only that the UK is less likely to join the Euro. That in itself though is clearly a subjective thing.

As an ex unionist, it pains me to say it, but the positives are not being stressed, and those are effectively only friendship and "auld lang syne".

[Suspect Device]

uni, on 28 November 2011 - 11:06, said:

That's me convinced.

Anyways back to the point the BBC is supposed to be neutral however they have not been for years now and have resorted to telling lies in many cases (especially when talking about countries like Venezuela and Cuba). They do seem to have a unionist bias however I was disgusted to see Alex Salmond rubbing shoulders with the aristocracy of Qatar. Qatar is not a country we want to be like where women have no rights, the death penalty for homosexuality and slave labour is the backbone of most people's wealth oh and it's not a democracy and to top it all of they have a monarchy, all things I do not want an Independent Scotland to be like.

(I know I've just gone off on one there, sorry)

You might want to research before going off on one though. They don't have the death penalty for homosexuality. 5 years for sodomy though. Apostasy also has the death penalty in theory.

[thepaisleypanda]

Pink Freud, on 28 November 2011 - 12:12, said:

And you won't because there no longer is a positive reason for staying.

Well there is, but only that the UK is less likely to join the Euro. That in itself though is clearly a subjective thing.

As an ex unionist, it pains me to say it, but the positives are not being stressed, and those are effectively only friendship and "auld lang syne".

"We need to describe the positive advantages of being part of a new UK."
(Malcolm Chisholm, Labour MSP, November 2011)

"[the proponent for independence] deserved to win, because he did the thing which usually wins a debate: he asked the question which mattered, and didn’t get a satisfactory response. And the question was this: what is the positive case for the Union?"
(Andrew McKie, conservative political commentator, November 2011)

"The bigger challenge with Alex Salmond, in my view, is [...] about addressing the political strategy he has been successful around. It is about making a positive case of Scotland in the UK and I can make that case."
(Johann Lamont, prospective Scottish Labour leader, November 2011)

"Scottish Labour needs to develop its vision of a devolved, confident Scotland and make its case for a vote against independence with a positive alternative."
(Mike Robb, Labour Hame, November 2011)

"We really need someone who can articulate a positive vision for Scotland, and sell it to the people of Scotland."
(John Ruddy, Labour Hame, November 2011)

"The Scottish Conservatives have a huge responsibility, to Scotland and the United Kingdom, to make the positive case for the Union"
(Ruth Davidson, Scottish Conservative leader, October 2011)

"We will need to make that very positive argument in the next few years; the very human, very individual benefit of the United Kingdom."
(Willie Rennie, Scottish Liberal Democrats leader, October 2011)

"I am determined, along with a new Scottish Labour leader when that person is chosen, to make that positive case for the union"
(Ed Miliband, Labour Party leader, September 2011)

"A clear vision of and a positive case for the Union needs to be developed"
(John Curtice, Professor of Politics, University of Strathclyde, May 2011)

"Voters should be inspired by being offered a positive case for the Union"
(David Cameron, Conservative Party leader, now UK Prime Minister, April 2007)

"We have got to show the positive case for the Union"
(Gordon Brown, former Chancellor and Prime Minister, January 2007)

TIME ELAPSED: 4 years, 10 months
CONFIRMED SIGHTINGS OF POSITIVE CASE FOR UNION TO DATE: 0
"I’m beginning to wonder if there is a positive case for the Union at all."
(Iain Macwhirter, Sunday Herald)

[deky]

There will be no more sunshine in an independent Scotland.

[kiwififer]

Pink Freud, on 28 November 2011 - 12:12, said:

As an ex unionist, it pains me to say it, but the positives are not being stressed, and those are effectively only friendship and "auld lang syne".

Better together, part of a strong nation, shared history, we're family etc, etc. All arguements used at the end of the empire and none of them worked then.

"In just about every case, they were told the whole thing would be a complete misadventure, a disaster. And I'll tell you something strange, not a single one of them ever said, 'We're coming back under London rule.' Not one."

Alex in Time magazine. The unionist press must love that.

Read more: http://www.time.com/...l#ixzz1f0DivQXL

[Suspect Device]

One positive story

From the herald a good few years ago debunking some of the myths.

[qpsnapper]

Colkitto, on 28 November 2011 - 11:44, said:

Tom Harris going off on one in the Holyrood Daily holyrood.com/.../...

On Cyber-Nat bullying Harris suggested that SNP officials were aware of party members who he accused of spreading “vitriol” on the internet.

Harris said: “The level of vitriol on the internet from Nats who believe that by disagreeing with them you are a traitor, or a quisling, or you are a bad person; most of them do believe that. They tend to cover it up.

“The SNP [as an] organisation always says, ‘nothing to do with us’ – of course they are, they just used pseudonyms so you can’t prove whether they’re SNP members or not. There’s a lot of bullying on the internet, and that kind of bullying is being used to a huge extent by the Nationalists.

I know people say, ‘there’s just as much antagonism on the Labour side’ and ‘Labour people are just as nasty’ – that’s a lie, that’s wrong, and it’s demonstrably wrong.”If he can't prove they are SNP members then that's some accusation to make without the slightest proof that they are!

Damien McBride?

[Colkitto]

thepaisleypanda, on 28 November 2011 - 12:22, said:

"We need to describe the positive advantages of being part of a new UK."
(Malcolm Chisholm, Labour MSP, November 2011)

"[the proponent for independence] deserved to win, because he did the thing which usually wins a debate: he asked the question which mattered, and didn't get a satisfactory response. And the question was this: what is the positive case for the Union?"
(Andrew McKie, conservative political commentator, November 2011)

"The bigger challenge with Alex Salmond, in my view, is [...] about addressing the political strategy he has been successful around. It is about making a positive case of Scotland in the UK and I can make that case."
(Johann Lamont, prospective Scottish Labour leader, November 2011)

"Scottish Labour needs to develop its vision of a devolved, confident Scotland and make its case for a vote against independence with a positive alternative."
(Mike Robb, Labour Hame, November 2011)

"We really need someone who can articulate a positive vision for Scotland, and sell it to the people of Scotland."
(John Ruddy, Labour Hame, November 2011)

"The Scottish Conservatives have a huge responsibility, to Scotland and the United Kingdom, to make the positive case for the Union"
(Ruth Davidson, Scottish Conservative leader, October 2011)

"We will need to make that very positive argument in the next few years; the very human, very individual benefit of the United Kingdom."
(Willie Rennie, Scottish Liberal Democrats leader, October 2011)

"I am determined, along with a new Scottish Labour leader when that person is chosen, to make that positive case for the union"
(Ed Miliband, Labour Party leader, September 2011)

"A clear vision of and a positive case for the Union needs to be developed"
(John Curtice, Professor of Politics, University of Strathclyde, May 2011)

"Voters should be inspired by being offered a positive case for the Union"
(David Cameron, Conservative Party leader, now UK Prime Minister, April 2007)

"We have got to show the positive case for the Union"
(Gordon Brown, former Chancellor and Prime Minister, January 2007)

TIME ELAPSED: 4 years, 10 months
CONFIRMED SIGHTINGS OF POSITIVE CASE FOR UNION TO DATE: 0
"I'm beginning to wonder if there is a positive case for the Union at all."
(Iain Macwhirter, Sunday Herald)

Excellent post!

[thepaisleypanda]

Colkitto, on 28 November 2011 - 12:36, said:

Excellent post!

Unashamedly nicked from here:
http://wingsland.podgamer.com/?p=12039

[NewBornBairn]

Harris has a point though. I've stood as an independent and been part of a team supporting an independent. I have no specific grouse with the SNP/Tories/LibDems but I do despise Labour.

I found that the SNP were far more professional in their approach to campaigning than they used to be. They are well-resourced and can afford to buy agency staff when volunteers are thin on the ground. Some of their volunteers are a bit, er, enthusiastic. The only problems I ever encountered with other canvassers during an election were with the BNP & the SNP. The BNP physically intimidated & threatened my wife while she was leafleting in Edinburgh and the SNP spat on our volunteers in Glasgow before trying to get some junkies to attack the candidate.

Online, some of the more vicious & vitriolic attacks came from SNP supporters, who would flood Facebook/Twitter/Blogs with negative posts.

At hustings it was different, with SNP supporters very thin on the ground. In fact it was rare to see the SNP at any event that wasn't televised or on the radio.

For radio phone-ins and the like, the SNP are miles ahead. They have a woman in Dundee who you can virtually guarantee will be first in the queue at any political phone-in on Radio Scotland. Her delivery is impeccable, polished and professional.

Apart from the physical threats, I'm not complaining about any of this. It shows the SNP are finally organised enough to win a modern election, which nowadays involves far more than glad-handing and a few media interviews.

[kiwififer]

http://rueclementmar...s.html?spref=fb


http://www.newsnetsc...onathan-edwards

anyone catch this little speech?

[doulikefish]

kiwififer, on 28 November 2011 - 13:18, said:

http://rueclementmar. ..s.html?spref=fb


http://www.newsnetsc...onathan-edwards

anyone catch this little speech?

Yip