[H_B]

Meant to start this after Tuesday's game, but during the commentary of England - Sweden they mentioned how many players who have been in recent squads, weren't in the squads for either the Spain or Sweden internationals, for various reasons.

England could easily pick two squads for Euro 2012, they have so many players in contention for places (OK, so Carlton Cole isn't going to go, but still he's had a recent cap), other than at goalkeeper, where it's Joe Hart then 2 traffic cones. It could be that this generation of youngsters is actually going to be better than the last one, if not in top end quality, in wider quality and depth.

Leaving the GKs aside, as it's Hobson's choice, all of the below are somewhat realistic contenders for the summer squad. Several also, like Phil Jones can and will cover defensive and midfield slots, so the categories below are pretty interchangeable. There's 39, and I've probably missed a few. I've bolded who I would pick if the plane was leaving tomorrow and everyone was fit. :-

DEFENCE :-

Phil Jones
Chris Smalling
Rio Ferdinand
John Terry
Ashley Cole
Kyle Walker
Phil Jagielka
Joleon Lescott
Michah Richards
Leighton Baines
Glen Johnson
Gary Cahill
Michael Dawson

MIDFIELD :-

Jack Wilshire
Scott Parker
Frank Lampard
Steven Gerrard
Gareth Barry
Stewart Downing
Adam Johnson
James Milner
Jack Rodwell
Ashley Young
Tom Cleverley
Michael Carrick
Aaron Lennon
Jordan Henderson
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain

ATTACK :-

Danny Welbeck
Daniel Sturridge
Wayne Rooney
Theo Walcott
Darren Bent
Jermaine Defoe
Peter Crouch
Bobby Zamora
Gabby Agbonlahor
Andy Carroll
Carlton Cole

[Poet of the Macabre]

If they reach the quarters, they've done well with that squad.

[GingerSaint]

H_B, on 20 November 2011 - 10:51, said:

Jordan Henderson
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain

Bobby Zamora
Gabby Agbonlahor
Andy Carroll
Carlton Cole

They don't have very much strength in that depth IMO. True depth is Spain's midfield and attack. You can easily pick 9 or 10 players that could start in midfield with Pedro, Villa and Torres up top and also players like Silva and Mata that can play in behind.

[HEY_SIDNEY]

DEF:

Richards
Jones
Smalling
Terry
Cahill
Baines
Cole
Walker

MID:

Lampard
Gerrard
Parker
Lennon
Walcott
Johnson
Young
Wilshire

FOR:

Rooney
Defoe
Welbeck
Crouch

[craigkillie]

I'd leave Crouch at home. Doesn't offer them much in their 4-3-3 system or their defensive 4-4-2. Posting on my phone just now, so it's too much hassle to post a whole squad, but I'll do it later.

For me, Wilshere and Rooney are the only real top end talents they have at the moment. Jones could get there when he learns to defend, which he will eventually.

[H_B]

I don't think Capello's squad will look much like mine incidentally. He just doesn't like Micah Richards and I think he will take both Terry and Ferdinand, which means Kyle Walker probably doesn't go either.

I'm also assuming he picks just 4 forwards, with Ashely Young going as a dual option. And that he plays only 1 central striker, which I think is certain. Might need another forward actually - so Defoe or Sturridge will probably go, at the expense of maybe Adam Johnson or more likely Tom Cleverley.

I'd like to see him go really bold and leave out Terry, Ferdinand and Steven Gerrard, unless he has a storming second half of the season. England need to plan for the future and the first two's best days are definitely in the past.

Real headaches for the England manager. For the last couple of tourneys, the squad picked itself bar maybe 1 or 2. Nice dilemma to have. I can see that squad reaching the last 4, draw permitting, which will probably be where they just don't have enough to go further.

2014 World Cup and they could be very very good.

This post has been edited by H_B: 20 November 2011 - 11:41

[H_B]

GingerSaint, on 20 November 2011 - 11:16, said:

True depth is Spain's midfield and attack. You can easily pick 9 or 10 players that could start in midfield with Pedro, Villa and Torres up top and also players like Silva and Mata that can play in behind.

So unless you are Spain you can't have squad depth? What?

And Spain's defensive options are very limited. Admittedly that's not a huge problem when you are so good in the other parts of the pitch and have the ball for 3/4 of the game.

[H_B]

Actually, picking just Joe Hart and having no backup keepers would be wise if the rules allowed that. Someone like Phil Jagielka can't be a worse option in goal than Robert Green.

[calum_gers]

I don't see it.

Goalkeeping is obviously a worry, but so is every other area of the pitch. Jones and Smalling both have potential, but i'm not sure they're quite there yet. Terry and Ferdinand are both over the hill. Johnson is rubbish, and i'm not a particular fan of Jagielka - he's really overhyped. In midfield, Parker, Cleverly and Wilshere is a good trio. However Gerrard and Lampard are in the same boat as Terry and Ferdinand. Johnson, Young and Lennon are good options but beyond that there's nothing. Upfront, Rooney, that's it.

It's a pretty weak squad for a nation that expects to be there or thereabouts imo.

Jagielka, Johson, Carrick, Barry, Rodwell, Henderson, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Welbeck. For different reasons should be nowhere near the squad.

[mozam76]

H_B, on 20 November 2011 - 11:47, said:

Actually, picking just Joe Hart and having no backup keepers would be wise if the rules allowed that. Someone like Phil Jagielka can't be a worse option in goal than Robert Green.

True.

I like the looks of that squad you've bolded, although I also can't see him not picking Terry. The only other pick I'd maybe have issue with is Welbeck, I'd take Defoe in his place.

[GingerSaint]

H_B, on 20 November 2011 - 11:44, said:

So unless you are Spain you can't have squad depth? What?

And Spain's defensive options are very limited. Admittedly that's not a huge problem when you are so good in the other parts of the pitch and have the ball for 3/4 of the game.

No. Spain's attacking options are all quality. I agree about them defensively which is why I only mentioned their options going forward. The players that you have suggested prove England has depth, are not of the same quality as their first team.

[H_B]

mozam76, on 20 November 2011 - 11:59, said:

True.

I like the looks of that squad you've bolded, although I also can't see him not picking Terry. The only other pick I'd maybe have issue with is Welbeck, I'd take Defoe in his place.

The thing about Defoe is he can't possibly play up front on his own, in the way that Bent and then Welbeck were asked to do against Spain.

I have to think Welbeck will go for that reason. In certain games, perhaps in them all, he's going to go with Walcott, Young and Bent/Welbeck/Rooney as the front 1/3.

With Parker a certain starter, and Wilshere too if I'm honest, that means you pick either Lampard or Gerrard to make the midfield 3.

My XI out of those I've picked would be :-

Hart

Richards Smalling Lescott Cole

Parker

Wilshere Lampard

Young Rooney/Bent Walcott

[mozam76]

If he goes with one up front, or with two players wide coming in, then aye you're right. Defoe seems to be much happier playing as a partnership. I just don't get the clamour surrounding Welbeck, really I don't - I don't think he's particularly pacy, he looks quite clumsy - I've never seen him as top class. Who am I to argue with SAF though?

[Skyline Drifter]

H_B, on 20 November 2011 - 11:40, said:

I don't think Capello's squad will look much like mine incidentally. He just doesn't like Micah Richards and I think he will take both Terry and Ferdinand, which means Kyle Walker probably doesn't go either.

There's no chance that Kyle Walker isn't going (if fit) IMO.

I'd be surprised if he's not first choice at right back by the time the finals come around.

There's also absolutely no chance that Terry isn't going unless he's found guilty of the race thing and banned. Ferdinand might not go now though. He's not going to play club football all that often between now and then.

[H_B]

Skyline Drifter, on 20 November 2011 - 12:29, said:

There's no chance that Kyle Walker isn't going (if fit) IMO.

I'd be surprised if he's not first choice at right back by the time the finals come around.

I really like Walker. But Jones is definitely going, as auxiliary RB,CB and CM. I really like Richards as well, and I think he brings a similar skillset to Walker, plus he can play at Centre Half. Likewise Smalling isn't as good an RB as either of those, but he can also play Centre Half.

I'm not sure he will take Richards, Jones, Walker and Smalling. I think Capello will leave Richards out. I'd be tempted to take all of them, but would probably sacrifice Walker if I had to.

This post has been edited by H_B: 20 November 2011 - 12:35

[H_B]

On the depth point, England could field :-

Traffic Cone

Walker Terry Ferdinand Baines

Barry/Jones

Gerrard Cleverley/Rodwell

Milner Defoe A Johnson

And that would still be good enough to get them out of the group stages in my view.

A couple of other countries in the tournament will have an overall better First 11 than England. Spain and Germany for sure. But England will have the most decisions to make in terms of filling a squad, and I'd take England's second XI to beat the others'.

This post has been edited by H_B: 20 November 2011 - 13:08

[craigkillie]

I'd put England 6th favourites for the Euros, behind Spain, Germany, Netherlands, France and Italy.

The latter two arguably don't have as much talent available as England, but they have a winning mentality at these tournaments.

[H_B]

Don't see France doing well at all. The other 4 you name, don't have any problem with your logic.

A lot depends on the luck of the draw. Ideally England will draw Poland or the Ukraine and top the group. Draw one of the other two and you could be facing a really tough quarter final.

[HEY_SIDNEY]

Behind Spain, Germany, Netherlands and Portugal for me Craig

[Skyline Drifter]

H_B, on 20 November 2011 - 12:34, said:

I really like Walker. But Jones is definitely going, as auxiliary RB,CB and CM. I really like Richards as well, and I think he brings a similar skillset to Walker, plus he can play at Centre Half. Likewise Smalling isn't as good an RB as either of those, but he can also play Centre Half.

I'm not sure he will take Richards, Jones, Walker and Smalling. I think Capello will leave Richards out. I'd be tempted to take all of them, but would probably sacrifice Walker if I had to.

Like I say, I expect Walker to be first choice right back by the time the tournament comes around so versatility is irrelevant. He'll look for versatility in his cover players but Cole, Terry, AN Other and Walker will be the first choice back four. I don't doubt Jones will be in there, either as first choice centre half or as first choice cover. I agree Richards is unlikely to make it unless others miss out through injury.

If either Smalling or Jones can cement themselves at centre half the decisions are fairly easy back there. If not and he goes with either Ferdinand or Cahill then he might have to leave Smalling at home.

craigkillie, on 20 November 2011 - 13:49, said:

I'd put England 6th favourites for the Euros, behind Spain, Germany, Netherlands, France and Italy.

The latter two arguably don't have as much talent available as England, but they have a winning mentality at these tournaments.

I wouldn't have France anywhere near it to be honest and I don't really think a burst of golden form at the turn of the Millennium gives them an established tournament winning mentality either. They scraped through the group, were abysmal at the last World Cup and haven't looked a very good side since Zidane retired to be honest. England are definitely above them.

Italy don't really have an awful lot of form either but you are right about them having tournament nous so you can never rule them out.

This post has been edited by Skyline Drifter: 20 November 2011 - 14:02

[Skyline Drifter]

HEY_SIDNEY, on 20 November 2011 - 13:55, said:

Behind Spain, Germany, Netherlands and Portugal for me Craig

Not sure there's any justification for ranking Portugal terribly highly either. Lucky to get through their group. Not even certain of making the playoffs until the last game, not exactly convincing in seeing off Bosnia. Did nothing much at the World Cup either after likewise scraping through their qualification group.

[craigkillie]

I've seen France a few times under Blanc, and I think he is putting together a hard-working team who don't have as many egos as the team from the last couple of tournaments.

Portugal have no chance unless they magic up a striker between now and the summer. As good as Ronaldo is, he can't do it all himself. Helder Postiga won't do.

[H_B]

I didnt even realise until he scored last week that he (Postiga) was still playing.

Plus being seeded so low will make things difficult. A couple of very decent sides will be going home early.

The Euros is a great format.

[craigkillie]

Just had a glance at the odds, and William Hill have England and France at joint 5th favourites, pricing them both at 11/1.

Portugal are further out at 16s.


Spain 5/2
Germany 10/3
Holland 6/1
Italy 10/1
England 11/1
France 11/1
Portugal 16/1
Russia 20/1
Ukraine 33/1
Croatia 40/1
Sweden 50/1
Greece 50/1
Denmark 50/1
Poland 50/1
Czech Republic 66/1
Ireland 66/1


Denmark and Ireland are priced too high for me. I suppose the odds might shift a bit after the draw.

This post has been edited by craigkillie: 20 November 2011 - 14:40

[H_B]

Hard to disagree with those odds to be honest.

Can't justify backing anyone other than Spain. 5/2 is a decent price.