[The Moonster]

STU KTID, on 01 February 2012 - 03:55, said:

That anyone still defends Levein over his selection policy beggars belief.

He devotes endless time and resources into chasing lower league Englishmen to try and convince them to play for Scotland, but refuses to even speak to Steven Fletcher, an actual Scotsman playing and scoring regularly in the Premiership, to find out whether he wants to play for his country.

I'd rather have an Englishman who wants to play for us than an "actual Scotsman" who's cares about ego more than playing for his country.

[McKee]

STU KTID, on 01 February 2012 - 17:13, said:

None of us know for sure if Steven Fletcher wants to play or not, the only certainty is that Levein isn't interested in finding out.



Shirley you can't be serious.

The list of English players that Levein has either managed to, or attempted to, convince to play for Scotland is already far too long to even list in one post, and is growing at an alarming rate. And it's not a question of these guys being "less Scottish" than our own players, it's that they aren't Scottish.

Exactly what right do you have to decide what nationality someone is?

Oh that's right, none. Take your head out the sand you ignorant bigot.

[FC_1919]

The Moonster, on 01 February 2012 - 19:00, said:

I'd rather have an Englishman who wants to play for us than an "actual Scotsman" who's cares about ego more than playing for his country.

Steven Fletcher isn't an "actual Scotsman" anyway....

[STU KTID]

McKee, on 01 February 2012 - 20:07, said:

Exactly what right do you have to decide what nationality someone is?

Oh that's right, none. Take your head out the sand you ignorant bigot.

You've got that the wrong way round, it's the likes of yourself that are trying to impose upon people what nationality they should be. It's no ones right to tell any one else what nationality they feel they are, and the likes of James "I don't feel very Scottish" Morrison or Matthew "I'm English" Gilks should have the right to decide that for themselves.

[STU KTID]

Anyway, instead of trying to derail this into yet another nationality argument, why doesn't someone address the actual point that was made? I'll try again:-

Craig Levein spoke recently of having an "ongoing dialogue" with Jonjo Shelvey and that he "hopes to persuade" him to change his mind and play for Scotland. So why no such dialogue with Steven Fletcher?

[Mr. Brightside]

STU KTID, on 01 February 2012 - 23:54, said:

Craig Levein spoke recently of having an "ongoing dialogue" with Jonjo Shelvey and that he "hopes to persuade" him to change his mind and play for Scotland. So why no such dialogue with Steven Fletcher?

How do you know he hasn't spoken to him?

[STU KTID]

Mr. Brightside, on 02 February 2012 - 00:05, said:

How do you know he hasn't spoken to him?

I simply take people at their word. Leveins most recent response to being asked by an interviewer about the Fletcher situation was "Nothing has changed. I haven't spoken to Steven." The time prior to that his response was "I haven't had any communication with Steven as yet." Of course, he could be lying.

[Mr. Brightside]

Well he obviously doesn't want to, maybe he doesn't want the squad to have someone with his attitude in the team. Which is fair enough, it is his choice.

[Tenpot]

I think SF is right on this one , Craig Levein is always being a bit of a p***k with a big ego

This post has been edited by Tenpot: 02 February 2012 - 04:56

[Savage Henry]

STU KTID, on 01 February 2012 - 17:13, said:

None of us know for sure if Steven Fletcher wants to play or not, the only certainty is that Levein isn't interested in finding out.



Shirley you can't be serious.

The list of English players that Levein has either managed to, or attempted to, convince to play for Scotland is already far too long to even list in one post, and is growing at an alarming rate. And it's not a question of these guys being "less Scottish" than our own players, it's that they aren't Scottish.

Why is it an alarming rate? And who are you to decide who is or isn't Scottish. For the purpose of national football, they very much are. And you have no idea how these people feel about their nationality. Even then, it's not important. An Englishman qualified to play for Scotland is still qualified to play for Scotland.

Enrico Annoni, on 01 February 2012 - 18:02, said:

If these guys want to play for Scotland, not a problem with me. Would you deny Jordan Rhodes a chance to play for Scotland because he isnt really a real Scot?

At least these guys are willing to show up and not drop out every friendly with a "niggling injury" only to be playing for the club the following weekend, for example look at the outrage when Phil Bardsley accepted an offer to play for Scotland, the guy has never let us down.

I don't often agree with you, but you are spot on. Most of these "English" players that STU KTID is railing against are at least as closely qualified as Rhodes, and in many cases, have far more "qualification",

The Moonster, on 01 February 2012 - 19:00, said:

I'd rather have an Englishman who wants to play for us than an "actual Scotsman" who's cares about ego more than playing for his country.

Indeed. "I don't want to look like a knob." Well you kind of failed there, didn't you, Steven.

FC_1919, on 01 February 2012 - 23:00, said:

Steven Fletcher isn't an "actual Scotsman" anyway....

Precisely the same level of "actual" Scottishness as Phil Bardsley.

STU KTID, on 01 February 2012 - 23:35, said:

You've got that the wrong way round, it's the likes of yourself that are trying to impose upon people what nationality they should be. It's no ones right to tell any one else what nationality they feel they are, and the likes of James "I don't feel very Scottish" Morrison or Matthew "I'm English" Gilks should have the right to decide that for themselves.

Nationality and international football are two different things entirely. You are the only one making borderline fascist designations of nationality based on birthplace. Did those players actually make those statements?

Tenpot, on 02 February 2012 - 04:55, said:

I think SF is right on this one , Craig Levein is always being a bit of a p***k with a big ego

Non sequitur. We all know this to be true, but it has nothing to do with the fact that Steven Fletcher doesn't want to play international football.

[The Moonster]

STU KTID, on 02 February 2012 - 00:27, said:

I simply take people at their word. Leveins most recent response to being asked by an interviewer about the Fletcher situation was "Nothing has changed. I haven't spoken to Steven." The time prior to that his response was "I haven't had any communication with Steven as yet." Of course, he could be lying.

Both are at fault here, stop picking on Levein and painting Fletcher as some kind of saint.

Tenpot, on 02 February 2012 - 04:55, said:

I think SF is right on this one , Craig Levein is always being a bit of a p***k with a big ego

And Steven Fletcher isn't?

[Virtual Insanity]

Savage Henry, on 02 February 2012 - 06:58, said:

Non sequitur. We all know this to be true, but it has nothing to do with the fact that Steven Fletcher doesn't want to play international football.

I don't think this is strictly true, if it were he would have retired or not bothered before. What is true is that his own ego is trumping his desire to play international football. What is also true is that Craig Levein's own ego is trumping his desire to select the best possible team. Clearly, both men are being egotistical p***ks on this one. However, for me there are a couple of reasons why Levein has more responsibility for putting it right:

1. It is his job. It's not Fletcher's job. Ego or not, Levein's job is to get Scotland to a major championship, and to get the best team on the park in order to do that. In pursuing this goal he has done an admirable job trying to establish all the players he can use, but he is refusing to pick the most high profile striker we have (Rhodesmania aside). That's what it comes down to for me, Levein could end this now by selecting Fletcher in his next squad, if he turns it down then the crisis is over, it's clear Fletcher doesn't want to play and we move on. If he turns up then great, petty differences put aside for the good of the country. He doesn't even really need to talk to him (picking up the phone first seems to be the issue for both men).

2. Fletcher has (a fairly tenuous) excuse for being a bit stubborn, immature, naive or whatever else about the whole issue. Levein, the guy with 30+ years of experience in professional football, should be able to be the bigger man about the whole thing and resolve it.

[Saints Bevy Squad]

Craig Levein is a cnut.


Good input, I know.

[Mr. Brightside]

I hope Scotland qualify for the WC in 2014 for one reason (other than the obvious) to piss off all the people who hate Levein, if he's still in charge obviously.

[Busta Nut]

I have not renewed my ssc membership. dont think i will. levein is too shite and if he doesn't get on the phone to fletcher soon he can f**k right off

[RobbieD]

Levein is meant to be the leader of this team. It's his job to speak to players.

This can all be solved VERY easily.

Call up Steven Fletcher and if he shows up, let's shake hands and crack on. If he doesn't show up, the discussion is over.

[Unitedlad]

Busta Nut, on 12 February 2012 - 23:00, said:

I have not renewed my ssc membership. dont think i will. levein is too shite and if he doesn't get on the phone to fletcher soon he can f**k right off

This

[paul-r-cfc]

Scored an excellent goal on Sunday - why oh why isn't he in the team

[RobbieD]

Too good obviously.

[craigkillie]

RobbieD, on 13 February 2012 - 19:28, said:

Levein is meant to be the leader of this team. It's his job to speak to players.

This can all be solved VERY easily.

Call up Steven Fletcher and if he shows up, let's shake hands and crack on. If he doesn't show up, the discussion is over.

As the leader of the team, he has presumably decided he wants to put the good of the team ahead of a talented but egotistical individual.

[Savage Henry]

RobbieD, on 13 February 2012 - 19:28, said:

Levein is meant to be the leader of this team. It's his job to speak to players.

This can all be solved VERY easily.

Call up Steven Fletcher and if he shows up, let's shake hands and crack on. If he doesn't show up, the discussion is over.

You don't think this has happened? And besides, if he's a bad influence, there may be more than one reason why he's not getting called up.

paul-r-cfc, on 14 February 2012 - 01:37, said:

Scored an excellent goal on Sunday - why oh why isn't he in the team

He doesn't want to be.

[RobbieD]

Savage Henry, on 14 February 2012 - 03:57, said:

You don't think this has happened? And besides, if he's a bad influence, there may be more than one reason why he's not getting called up.

Actually, it hasn't happened.

Doing what I suggested solves everything.


As for whoever made the comment about egotistical individuals, EVERY top team has them. It's the manager's job to work with them. I could just imagine the reaction if managers outside the UK sent their best players home because of egos. Pure mayhem.

[saintie1977]

Why can't the SFA sit Fletcher and Levein down and sort it out? It's a total joke one of our best players is left out because of a disagreement of this sort - I can't think of many other countries where this would be allowed to happen.

[gordon the gopher]

Only rumours, but a few suggesting Fletcher could be named in the squad on Monday after the two have apparantly worked out their differences out of media spotlight.

Apparantly Levein wants Fletcher and Rhodes as the strike duo for Scotland going forward for the next couple of friendlies

I'm not sure I can see it being true unfortunately, really hope it is though

This post has been edited by gordon the gopher: 18 February 2012 - 10:32

[Fuctifano]

Surely Rhodes will be in the u21 squad for the Holland game anyway?