[topcat(The most tip top)]

Scotland's clubs finished with 5 UEFA Coefficent points between them

Hearts: Pld 4, W 1, D 2, L 1, Pts 2
Dundee United: Pld 2, W 1, D 0, L 1, Pts 1
Rangers: Pld 4, W 0, D 2, L 2, Pts 1
Celtic: Pld 2, W 0, D 1, L 1, Pts 0.5

Total: Pld 12, W 2, D 5, L 5, Pts 4.5

meaning that we average 1.125 for this season.

When this replace the 10.25 for 2007/08 our coefficient will drop by 9.125 to 10.141 which would put us just above Hungary. It basically means that we'll all enter one round earlier in 2012/13

It's worth noting that the old firm averaged 1 Point while the "diddy teams" averaged 1.5 so Scotland's average was dragged down by the "Glasgow Giants"

This post has been edited by topcat(The most tip top): 26 August 2011 - 07:23

[Supras]

topcat(The most tip top), on 25 August 2011 - 20:59, said:

Scotland's clubs finished with 5 UEFA Coefficent points between them

Hearts: Pld 4, W 1, D 2, L 1, Pts 2
Dundee United: Pld 2, W 1, D 0, L 1, Pts 1
Celtic: Pld 2, W 0, D 1, L 1, Pts 1
Rangers: Pld 4, W 0, D 2, L 2, Pts 1

Total: Pld 12, W 2, D 5, L 5, Pts 5

meaning that we average 1.25 for this season.

When this replace the 10.25 for 2007/08 our coefficient will drop by 9 to 10.266 which would put us just above Hungary. It basically means that we'll all enter one round earlier in 2012/13

It's worth noting that the old firm averaged 1 Point while the "diddy teams" averaged 1.5 so Scotland's average was dragged down by the "Glasgow Giants"

We'll still be above Hungary, who are a far larger nation, and entering one leg earlier is not really a problem.

Much ado about nothing.

[Supras]

topcat(The most tip top), on 25 August 2011 - 20:59, said:

Scotland's clubs finished with 5 UEFA Coefficent points between them

Hearts: Pld 4, W 1, D 2, L 1, Pts 2
Dundee United: Pld 2, W 1, D 0, L 1, Pts 1
Celtic: Pld 2, W 0, D 1, L 1, Pts 1
Rangers: Pld 4, W 0, D 2, L 2, Pts 1

Total: Pld 12, W 2, D 5, L 5, Pts 5

meaning that we average 1.25 for this season.

When this replace the 10.25 for 2007/08 our coefficient will drop by 9 to 10.266 which would put us just above Hungary. It basically means that we'll all enter one round earlier in 2012/13

It's worth noting that the old firm averaged 1 Point while the "diddy teams" averaged 1.5 so Scotland's average was dragged down by the "Glasgow Giants"

We'll still be above Hungary, who are a far larger nation, and entering one leg earlier is not really a problem.

Much ado about nothing.

[EdTheDuck]

With all our clubs out we are behind Cyprus who still have 2 teams in Europe
Israel with 3 teams still in Europe need like 2 draws to overtake us

Next season rangers run to the EL final disappears and we slide so far down the co-efficients we'll have to take our time getting back up or we'll get the bends

[cheesy]

Sooner or later, we'll be in with the Andorra's and the Liechenstein's of world football. Depressing reading as a fan of Scottish football.

[Supras]

cheesy, on 25 August 2011 - 21:40, said:

Sooner or later, we'll be in with the Andorra's and the Liechenstein's of world football. Depressing reading as a fan of Scottish football.

Don't be so ridiculous.

Our coefficient is still well above what it should be.

[StandFree03]

Who gives a f**k? It just means we go out a round earlier than usual or if Hearts/Hibs/United/whoever are serious about doing something in Europe then its just another few games to prove yourself.

[EdTheDuck]

cheesy, on 25 August 2011 - 21:40, said:

Sooner or later, we'll be in with the Andorra's and the Liechenstein's of world football. Depressing reading as a fan of Scottish football.

Nah, min take a chill pill.
Dropping down the co-efficients will work in our favour because even we go in a round or two earlier we'll batter the latvians and maltese and go romping back up the table

[MTJ]

Is there an actual list somewhere online of it?

[phanni tikklar]

MTJ, on 25 August 2011 - 21:45, said:

Is there an actual list somewhere online of it?

No. Everybody in Europe has to keep track of it themselves, with a pencil and a bit of paper. It's all very confusing. Unless you've been keeping note of all the results for the last five years you're fucked!!!

[HibeeJibee]

Supras, on 25 August 2011 - 21:01, said:

We'll still be above Hungary, who are a far larger nation, and entering one leg earlier is not really a problem.

Much ado about nothing.

In some respects, that may mean more winnable ties, and help us recover.

cheesy, on 25 August 2011 - 21:40, said:

Sooner or later, we'll be in with the Andorra's and the Liechenstein's of world football. Depressing reading as a fan of Scottish football.

Ludicrous.

[betting competition]

MTJ, on 25 August 2011 - 21:45, said:

Is there an actual list somewhere online of it?

At the moment after this season (which counts for the season 2013/2014 season we are 17th and might drop down a few positions but should be ok to stay in the rounds which we entered this season (22nd is the one you have to go in early)

http://kassiesa.home.../crank2012. html


Next season our league winners are in the champions league again so we will make points on that but the following season we are 28th at the moment (might chance if a few teams get results but i think we will do better than the 1.875 we got that season so total will be higher.

http://kassiesa.home.../crank2013. html

This post has been edited by betting competition: 25 August 2011 - 22:19

[HibeeJibee]

Yeh, the irony is us having 2 CL slots this season with the current co-efficient being better than last year. That'll confuse a few people come May!!

Tbh the longterm future of the co-efficient rests upon 2 things. Our sides (particularly the OF in the CL) making good use of next season's opportunity. Thereafter entering earlier off a lower co-efficient, our sides progressing rounds, including non-OF clubs.

I have always said co-efficients are cyclical for nations like ours. We peaked a few years back, getting ahead of ourselves, and we are now on the down journey of the trough. We will bottom-out, and in time, rise again.

[SEETHING]

StandFree03, on 25 August 2011 - 21:44, said:

Who gives a f**k? It just means we go out a round earlier than usual or if Hearts/Hibs/United/whoever are serious about doing something in Europe then its just another few games to prove yourself.

[Dungolfin]

Entering one leg earlier surely means that our diddy's will be playing poorer opposition. Therefore they might have a chance of winning a game and the OF fans can enjoy the meaningless big european nights they've become so accustomed to. To be honest I don't give a rats ass about the co-efficient, if you've got a good team you'll progress, if you're a diddy team you'll get papped out...simples!

[ayrmad]

Can we not just learn to trap and pass the ball, can't say the co-efficient has ever made me look at Ayr differently.

[blue4578]

A lot of nonsense being spoken here, the coefficient does matter.

Entry to the European competitions this season is based on the five year UEFA rankings ending with the 2009/10 season. Scotland were ranked 16th on 25.791. If Scotland had been ranked 13th (Switzerland were in this position with 28.375) then Rangers would have had automatic entry to the group stages of the Champions League this season. Celtic would've needed to win two ties against other non champions to join them in the group stages. If Celtic had won the first tie and lost the second, they'd have been in the Europa League group stages. Less than 3 points difference is not very many wins over a five year period. Do you think it doesn't matter to Rangers that they tried and failed to qualify for the group stages of the Champions League when they could've had automatic entry if the coefficient had been slightly higher? Rangers entered the group stages of the Champions League last season because Scotland were ranked 13th on the previous season's rankings. Any lower and they'd have had to qualify and would likely have lost. It's never going to happen, but if Scotland were ranked in the top three countries, then they'd have three teams in the group stages of the Champions League and another needing to win one qualifying round to join them. How can anyone say that the coefficient doesn't matter? Germany have overtaken Italy for third place in next season's rankings, which means they get four places and Italy three. That's a very big deal for whoever finishes fourth in those leagues this season.

It's not so important for the Europa League as every country, except Liechtenstein, gets three or (in a small number of cases) four places. If you're good enough you'll probably be able to qualify. However if the coefficient and team ranking is low then not only will you have to play more qualifying rounds and thus have more chance of losing, but you'll be unseeded in those qualifying rounds and therefore will have to play the best possible opposition, making qualification even more difficult. If you happen to make the group stages, your low team ranking will mean you'll again be seeded to play stronger opposition, in much the same way a poor FIFA ranking gets your international team a harder draw when qualifying for World Cups and European Championships.

Rangers' run to the UEFA Cup Final is the only thing propping up the ranking currently. When that drops off, it's an extremely long road back. I suppose that may mean Scotland find their true level and get some winnable ties to slightly improve the coefficient, but making the group stages of the Champions League is the main thing when it comes to European competition. A low coefficient and individual team rankings means that it will get ever harder to achieve that.

[LongTimeLurker]

People finally need to come out of denial on this now. After last night's exit by the OF the end of an era is very much approaching in which the SPL moves from being seen as one of the best of the rest outside of England, Italy, France, Germany, Spain, Holland and Russia to being more like Bulgaria, Hungary, the RoI and Finland with one of the very worst ranked national leagues to consist mainly of full-time rather than part-time clubs.

http://kassiesa.home.../crank2013. html

Even with a very good level of performance next season that nets 6 or 7 points towards the country ranking there will only be about 15 to 16 points in the ranking table (bear in mind the last four have been1.875, 2.666, 3.600 and 1.125), which means chances are that Scotland winds up outside of the top 22 and that entry in the very early qualifying rounds in July becomes the norm even for the OF in the years ahead, A time of year when our clubs are not as ready to compete as many of the clubs they are likely to face (e.g. Malmo) that play more of a summer season format.

That will have a number of consequences that will seriously damage our top clubs (admittedly mainly the OF initially). Quality foreign players will be much harder to attract, shirt sponsors will probably pay less, lucrative preseason tours may no longer be doable. The real doomsday scenario that will affect all our top clubs will be if Sky and ESPN start to question whether the SPL is actually worth carrying, if the stature of the Old Firm sinks to the point that it starts being a bit like trying to sell Linfield vs Glentoran as a must see event to people outside of Belfast. Given clubs like Cardiff are able to sign Old Firm transfer targets we are already approaching a point where the Championship as well as the Premiership is seen by some as a step up from the SPL in prestige terms.

This post has been edited by LongTimeLurker: 26 August 2011 - 05:15

[sparky88]

LongTimeLurker, on 26 August 2011 - 05:13, said:

People finally need to come out of denial on this now. After last night's exit by the OF the end of an era is very much approaching in which the SPL moves from being seen as one of the best of the rest outside of England, Italy, France, Germany, Spain, Holland and Russia to being more like Bulgaria, Hungary, the RoI and Finland with one of the very worst ranked national leagues to consist mainly of full-time rather than part-time clubs.

http://kassiesa.home.../crank2013. html

Even with a very good level of performance next season that nets 6 or 7 points towards the country ranking there will only be about 15 to 16 points in the ranking table (bear in mind the last four have been1.875, 2.666, 3.600 and 1.125), which means chances are that Scotland winds up outside of the top 22 and that entry in the very early qualifying rounds in July becomes the norm even for the OF in the years ahead, A time of year when our clubs are not as ready to compete as many of the clubs they are likely to face (e.g. Malmo) that play more of a summer season format.

That will have a number of consequences that will seriously damage our top clubs (admittedly mainly the OF initially). Quality foreign players will be much harder to attract, shirt sponsors will probably pay less, lucrative preseason tours may no longer be doable. The real doomsday scenario that will affect all our top clubs will be if Sky and ESPN start to question whether the SPL is actually worth carrying, if the stature of the Old Firm sinks to the point that it starts being a bit like trying to sell Linfield vs Glentoran as a must see event to people outside of Belfast. Given clubs like Cardiff are able to sign Old Firm transfer targets we are already approaching a point where the Championship as well as the Premiership is seen by some as a step up from the SPL in prestige terms.

Where to start with this?

All ifs and buts. Rangers and Celtics reputation that makes them attractive to fans from overseas has nothing to do with European performance and everything to do with religion. That wont change whether they get put out in July or December. And only twice has a team from outside the of reached the group stages of the uefa cup - the co-efficient has got f**k all do with it. No matter when the OF are placed in the qualifying draw of the europa league they should be expecting to get through. The fact they havent done so has nothing to do with money and everything to do with managerial incompetence.

[Reynard]

Apparently St.Mirren lose a few thousand pounds from UEFA because our clubs failed horribly in Europe last night. Firstly I'd just like to say that I couldn't give a f**k about the coefficient OR European football. I don't give the tiniest shit about Scotlands standing in European terms and I'm absolutely delighted that the oldfirms income is harmed massively by their failure here. I hope this continues to happen.

[jupe1407]

There is something rather amusing about Rangers and Celtic fans wanting us diddies to give a shit about the co-efficient, which will only really be of benefit to them and a couple of other SPL clubs each season.

Considering the disdain with which they look at the rest of Scotland's football clubs throughout the rest of any given season (and escpecially this season where league games were postponed so they could play fucking friendlies), they've got a fucking cheek wanting any support from the rest of us at all. You reap what you sow, c***s.

Which all makes nights like last night highly amusing for the majority of us.

[Reynard]

blue4578, on 26 August 2011 - 03:33, said:

A lot of nonsense being spoken here, the coefficient does matter.

Entry to the European competitions this season is based on the five year UEFA rankings ending with the 2009/10 season. Scotland were ranked 16th on 25.791. If Scotland had been ranked 13th (Switzerland were in this position with 28.375) then Rangers would have had automatic entry to the group stages of the Champions League this season. Celtic would've needed to win two ties against other non champions to join them in the group stages. If Celtic had won the first tie and lost the second, they'd have been in the Europa League group stages. Less than 3 points difference is not very many wins over a five year period. Do you think it doesn't matter to Rangers that they tried and failed to qualify for the group stages of the Champions League when they could've had automatic entry if the coefficient had been slightly higher? Rangers entered the group stages of the Champions League last season because Scotland were ranked 13th on the previous season's rankings. Any lower and they'd have had to qualify and would likely have lost. It's never going to happen, but if Scotland were ranked in the top three countries, then they'd have three teams in the group stages of the Champions League and another needing to win one qualifying round to join them. How can anyone say that the coefficient doesn't matter? Germany have overtaken Italy for third place in next season's rankings, which means they get four places and Italy three. That's a very big deal for whoever finishes fourth in those leagues this season.

It's not so important for the Europa League as every country, except Liechtenstein, gets three or (in a small number of cases) four places. If you're good enough you'll probably be able to qualify. However if the coefficient and team ranking is low then not only will you have to play more qualifying rounds and thus have more chance of losing, but you'll be unseeded in those qualifying rounds and therefore will have to play the best possible opposition, making qualification even more difficult. If you happen to make the group stages, your low team ranking will mean you'll again be seeded to play stronger opposition, in much the same way a poor FIFA ranking gets your international team a harder draw when qualifying for World Cups and European Championships.

Rangers' run to the UEFA Cup Final is the only thing propping up the ranking currently. When that drops off, it's an extremely long road back. I suppose that may mean Scotland find their true level and get some winnable ties to slightly improve the coefficient, but making the group stages of the Champions League is the main thing when it comes to European competition. A low coefficient and individual team rankings means that it will get ever harder to achieve that.

Not to me it doesn't. I am glad ours is sinking like a fucking stone and it brings in less income to both oldfirm clubs who are the only ones to benefit for " the champions league money". If their income is significantly reduced because they can't hack it in Europe then that absolutely delights me. All this handwringing is entirely for a selfish oldfirm perspective. They set ujp the SPL to cream off all the available money in the game in Scotland and they expected to be gathering in champions league money too. Their masterplan is turning to shite, and I'm laughing my head off at them. All this handwringing about how shit we are in Europe doesn't affect me or my team one iota.

Dundee Utd went out of Europe to some Polish nonsense before our season had even started. They will have lost money on the tie. Get that to f**k right now. Not one single Scottish football fan gives a shite about playing some unpronouncables from johnny foreignersville where chartering the plane and bringing all their own food so they don't get some parasitic intestinal thing from the local produce, ends up costing them more than they bring in through gate money and sponsorship.

Tell UEFA to get to f**k, and shove their bollocks competitions up their arses. I used to quite like watching European games when it was straight knock out and your team had a chance of drawing a decent team. Now it's fucking shite.

[Reynard]

jupe1407, on 26 August 2011 - 06:53, said:

There is something rather amusing about Rangers and Celtic fans wanting us diddies to give a shit about the co-efficient, which will only really be of benefit to them and a couple of other SPL clubs each season.

Considering the disdain with which they look at the rest of Scotland's football clubs throughout the rest of any given season (and escpecially this season where league games were postponed so they could play fucking friendlies), they've got a fucking cheek wanting any support from the rest of us at all. You reap what you sow, c***s.

Which all makes nights like last night highly amusing for the majority of us.

It's hilarious really. They are doing the handwringing shite simply because their incomes are in tatters from this. I;'m fucking delighted that they ballsed up over the past few years as our coefficient collapses and it becomes harder and harder for them to make any money via European competition. f**k them.


I want Rangers and Celtic to fall to bits and turn to absolute shite.

NOBODY who does actually care about club football in this country will be doing anything other than pointing and laughing at the oldfirm today and noting that a lot of the wailing and gnashing of teeth comes from tired old hacks that won't be getting a wee all expenses paid jolly up to some foreign outpost where they can get pished for free at the papers expense.


I want our coefficient to fall to zero so that the oldfirm dont make any money out of Europe. That would be fantastic.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

I'd made a mistake in the first post

Celtic actually only got half a coefficient point

I've fixed it now

[Lancashirearab]

Reynard, on 26 August 2011 - 07:01, said:

I used to quite like watching European games when it was straight knock out and your team had a chance of drawing a decent team. Now it's fucking shite.

The seeding of football now is making it a passport for the big boys to get their own way and more or less close the final stages of competitions to smaller clubs/nations. It suits TV companies to more or less guarantee the clubs/countries with the biggest viewing figures are represented year after year, tournament after tournament. These tournaments are rigged for the benefit of the big and wealthy and to the detriment of all the smaller clubs and nations.

Unfortunately, I don't see it changing back to the way it was in the good old days.