[weeredbook]

Thats the reality.Thats the Dick Shaw quote.The vote will be inevitable .Most of the clubs have squandered the cash on players, and Threave apart none have done anything to improve facilities .
The non full members havent a hope of becoming full members as they havent got the infrastrucure to move forward, never mind getting any handouts
Discuss..........................

This post has been edited by weeredbook: 25 July 2011 - 09:18

[Fancy Pants]

OK, we all know Member Clubs get handouts from the SFA which might i add they are entitled to do what they want with, im sure nobody tells you how to spend your money, so all this moaning about players getting paid is getting tedious, its been happening for decades, its nothing new.

The big picture however is that even with the SFA handouts the Member Clubs still wont be able to do their facilities up to meet SFA criteria, the £50,000 or so they have had over the passed few years wouldnt go very far in building proper facilities etc. Threave are farther ahead than the rest.but please dont try and kid that they have pumped all their SFA handouts into facilities when they have had quite a lot of cash from the Lottery etc, and that isnt a dig at Threave im merely stating the truth. Other leagues have been lucky ( Highland and East) that they have councils and financial backers who are and were willing to help clubs build better grounds. The Highland league is far more advanced than the South, the gap between the two leagues is huge! Im a SOSL fan and all we get on here is how teams pay players! How about we give the South a bit of credit from now on? Would that be too hard?

Im going to be realistic and say that no Member Club in the South will get Licensed from the SFA, feel free to disagree with me, but no Club is anywhere near it and im sure Annan and Stranraer can vouch as to how hard it is to get Licensed. Nothing wrong with trying though and i wish all Clubs the best in the future.

[HibeeJibee]

The fact that there are now 2 boards, the Professional and the Community, changes very little in tangible terms. Issue already existed.

The criteria for entry to the Scottish Cup can only be changed by AGM vote of member clubs, and that means the reforms to the SFA Board structure haven't changed the situation there. If the majority of clubs want to restrict entry to Club Licensed clubs, or to clubs participating in Club Licensing (there is a difference), then they will do it... but they would have done it anyway - regardless of the changes in May.

The situation is the same for clubs who are not currently full members. They would need a 'proper ground' currently, to become an associate and then full member - those rules aren't due to licensing, either.

The expansion of Club Licensing is going to be a massive challenge for some clubs, and those playing on what are essentially public parks are going to have a real mountain to climb to get licensed. However, no decision has been made about restricting Scottish Cup entry; the rules about licensing (e.g. the levels of criteria; what criteria apply to what league; whether a whole league must enter, or individual clubs) may change; match-funding is available through the SFP; etc. etc.

[Stu]

Could the SFA not change the Scottish Cup entry criteria to be only clubs whose grounds meet the current SFA membership requirements? I'm sure there are clubs in all leagues who wouldn't get into the SFA these days with their grounds.

Would be surprised if Threave don't get licenced - and if they don't, I doubt anyone in the South will.

[HibeeJibee]

Stu, on 25 July 2011 - 14:35, said:

Could the SFA not change the Scottish Cup entry criteria to be only clubs whose grounds meet the current SFA membership requirements? I'm sure there are clubs in all leagues who wouldn't get into the SFA these days with their grounds.

Would be surprised if Threave don't get licenced - and if they don't, I doubt anyone in the South will.

"The SFA" = the clubs, but yes: the clubs can change the Scottish Cup entry criteria, to make the ground criteria asked of new applicants for associate membership, apply to existing full members club.

[info]

HibeeJibee, on 25 July 2011 - 15:23, said:

"The SFA" = the clubs, but yes: the clubs can change the Scottish Cup entry criteria, to make the ground criteria asked of new applicants for associate membership, apply to existing full members club.

Good letter FP.Points to add.
1/ None Member clubs knew or should have known when they applied to join the South league that Member Clubs received money from the SFA when there was a surplus at the end of a finantial year.Not every year.
2/All the Member Clubs have hosted Scottish Cup matches for the past 60+ years without any complaints from visiting teams or officials(except when they got beat!)
What has changed?
3/all South Clubs would like to have mini Hampdens as required by Club Licensing but how can small communities sustain them? £90K for lights you would only use a few times a season? 550 seater stands for under 100 spectators? £50k+ for walls to enclose pitches with the ongoing maintainance which are not wanted or needed ?
The South league provides football and reasonable facilities for around 200 players and officials every week through out the season without any help from the district council unlike the Highlands and East.
What is so terrible about that? Is there to be no football south of Ayrshire?

[Zorr-oh!]

weeredbook, on 25 July 2011 - 00:00, said:

Thats the reality.Thats the Dick Shaw quote.The vote will be inevitable .Most of the clubs have squandered the cash on players, and Threave apart none have done anything to improve facilities .
The non full members havent a hope of becoming full members as they havent got the infrastrucure to move forward, never mind getting any handouts
Discuss..........................

No non member club will never become members because as has been mentioned the amount of money required to get a ground up to standard , lights ,covered stand, enclosed ground ,toilets , changing rooms, hospitallity etc is way beyond the reach of any club. The best supported teams play in front of a few dozen fans, perhaps Saints, Dalbeattie and Threave a few more, so why would anyone try for membership ?. I am not saying that clubs should,nt try and make their facilities better but keep it in perspective. The South is a good league for the size of the clubs that play in it , if any of the clubs hope to move onto a higher standard then good luck to them. Annan have shown that having a good set up and a good support from the local fans that it is possible to do well in league football but how many clubs could atract crowds the size of theirs. You say that apart from Threave clubs have not done any thing to improve their facilities , I have to dissagree. Saints are in for planning permission to modernise and extend their changing facilities. Fleet Star have planning permission to extend, Abbey Vale have extended, the Crichton have done work... I could go on. The South is a good league, not perfect but never the less it,s what we have so lets get on and continue to enjoy it, if folk are not happy then find something else to do on a Saturday.

[Fancy Pants]

info, on 25 July 2011 - 16:03, said:

Good letter FP.Points to add.
1/ None Member clubs knew or should have known when they applied to join the South league that Member Clubs received money from the SFA when there was a surplus at the end of a finantial year.Not every year.
2/All the Member Clubs have hosted Scottish Cup matches for the past 60+ years without any complaints from visiting teams or officials(except when they got beat!)
What has changed?
3/all South Clubs would like to have mini Hampdens as required by Club Licensing but how can small communities sustain them? £90K for lights you would only use a few times a season? 550 seater stands for under 100 spectators? £50k+ for walls to enclose pitches with the ongoing maintainance which are not wanted or needed ?
The South league provides football and reasonable facilities for around 200 players and officials every week through out the season without any help from the district council unlike the Highlands and East.
What is so terrible about that? Is there to be no football south of Ayrshire?

Yep all excellent points info.

The South doesnt attract big enough crowds to sustain the required facilities for what would be an SFA Licensed Club, only time crowds are big in the South are when the big 3 play each other or a Scottish Cup match. You can travel to any ground in the South on a saturday and you wont find a massive crowd which is such a shame as I personally think the South is a decent level of football.

Also what should also be pointed out is that it is not only facilities that are required for Club Licensing, but also Clubs structures will be under review, financially, management, youth etc.

Clubs will have to make decisions and while the Non-Member Clubs will think this will be great and make it an even playing field then you are wrong, the South will get less recognition than it does now and will surely spell a dark and bleak future for football in the South of Scotland League. Member Clubs are what built the League and once they are gone everyone will realise how much they were needed.

I enjoy watching South football and I fear for the future of it.

[Zorr-oh!]

Fancy Pants, on 25 July 2011 - 17:22, said:

Yep all excellent points info.

The South doesnt attract big enough crowds to sustain the required facilities for what would be an SFA Licensed Club, only time crowds are big in the South are when the big 3 play each other or a Scottish Cup match. You can travel to any ground in the South on a saturday and you wont find a massive crowd which is such a shame as I personally think the South is a decent level of football.

Also what should also be pointed out is that it is not only facilities that are required for Club Licensing, but also Clubs structures will be under review, financially, management, youth etc.

Clubs will have to make decisions and while the Non-Member Clubs will think this will be great and make it an even playing field then you are wrong, the South will get less recognition than it does now and will surely spell a dark and bleak future for football in the South of Scotland League. Member Clubs are what built the League and once they are gone everyone will realise how much they were needed.

I enjoy watching South football and I fear for the future of it.

You say the South will get less recognition in the future, sadly I think that whole of the South of Scotland gets no recognition from goverment or the SFA just now. I have to say I dont share your doom for the future, very little will change and clubs will continue to do their best. If there is less money going about then it is up to clubs to try and raise money however they can . Football will always be a sport that people want to watch or play in, look to the future and not the past and let,s make the most of what we have.

[weeredbook]

Some excellent points of view, and great discussion.

[HibeeJibee]

Not wishing to be overly brutal but I agree with the assessment a couple of posts up... even if the worst-case scenario happened, and everyone bar Threave lost entry to the Scottish Cup, would it really have a huge impact? The SOSFL doesn't have any sponsors for the league or cups, and it doesn't seem to have many outlays (i.e. cup finals aren't at neutral venues; there's no Select team; there's no website; and so on), so any loss of profile shouldn't have much of a financial impact on the overall league.

In terms of individual clubs, it has been historicaly rare for any of them bar Threave + Dalbeattie (EOS-based until recently) to progress in the Scottish Cup. So in most cases, they would only lose a R1 tie and £2,000 of money, plus a loss of prestige. Now granted that has an impact, but it shouldn't do material harm to the ability of those clubs to continue as going concerns. I also doubt any fans would give-up on spectating, for that reason, and most players haven't an alternative league situated locally to attract them away.

So even in the worst-case scenario, league and clubs won't suffer unbearably.

There'll always be a niche for Senior/Junior football in the south-west, IMO.

This post has been edited by HibeeJibee: 25 July 2011 - 21:29