[theundertakers]

cmontheloknow, on 29 January 2012 - 19:20, said:

Maybe you can answer a wee question as it's not on your club's site. Date of formation is shown as 1899 but Brian McColl's history site of football suggests the original Juniors in the Port were an offshoot of the Senior side beginning in 1895 and that they (Port
Glasgow Athletic Juniors) folded at the start
of WW2, with a new side called Port Glasgow
starting up in 1948, playing Juvenile at first.

Brian's done an awful lot of research so would seem strange he's so out on this one?

Not 2 sure m8 i only know 1899 is on the club badge, i have also read of all the other related stuff but still unsure possibly the old redshank would be best 2 ask for this

[WaffenThinMint]

cmontheloknow, on 29 January 2012 - 19:20, said:

Maybe you can answer a wee question as it's not on your club's site. Date of formation is shown as 1899 but Brian McColl's history site of football suggests the original Juniors in the Port were an offshoot of the Senior side beginning in 1895 and that they (Port Glasgow Athletic Juniors) folded at the start of WW2, with a new side called Port Glasgow starting up in 1948, playing Juvenile at first.

Brian's done an awful lot of research so would seem strange he's so out on this one?

Seem to remember you pulled me up on this one before, and it came back to my old point about "if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck", etc, and the habit of Seniors and Juniors sharing grounds being more than mere happy coincidences, even if they did exist as separate legal entities.
(Spartans are of course bringing back this fine and venerable tradition)

Port Glasgow Athletic Juniors were mothballed due to the war, as you say - not really a fold any more than the dozens of Senior sides that went into hibernation during World War 2. The reason for dropping the Athletic is open to debate, one of them being a wish not to be accidentally associated by similarity of name with the Port Glasgow Protestant Athletic Club.

Certainly the "new" club took some pains to stress they had nothing to do with the old Port Glasgow Athletic clubs - Junior or Senior - perhaps in part because of that Scots tendency to shy from association with a past failure, but doubtless in the main to avoid any connection to any outstanding liabilities the old club had, only to make a big fuss about celebrating their "centenary" in the Greenock Telegraph a while back!

Incidentally, Port Glasgow Athletic's Junior section started after the club had enjoyed a highly promising season and saw their operations as ripe for expansion, which unfortunately proved to be over-optimistic in the extreme, the Senior side eventually becoming an effective Amateur side paying its players only expenses.

This post has been edited by WaffenThinMint: 30 January 2012 - 14:27

[Mon The Port]

has a date been set for the opening yet? anyone have any pictures?

also who were the last club in the west to have a new place built? glencairn? carluke?

[Mon The Port]

anyone?

[NE63 exile]

Seen it from the road yesterday. Looks good but there doesn't seem to be any partitions covering the sides or the back of the terraced sections with the cover on. If the wind and rain is driving in off the river there won't be much shelter from it.

[Mon The Port]

anyone know whats happening with this? passing it on the motorway its looked finished for a few weeks now, does anyone know what still has to be done or know of an opening date?

[Osama bin Ant]

Lot of b*ll*cks written about the history of Port Glasgow Juniors. The following article appeared in the late lamented St Anthony's programme last August. Hope this is informative...

FOOTBALL IN THE PORT

Originally a village called Newark, the 15th century Newark Castle still stands in the town. Glasgow's need for a deep-water port led to industrialisation and the town became known as Portglasgow & Newark. Later this changed to Port-Glasgow. The hyphen was lost around 1940, so that pre-war club names were hyphenated, while the present club is not.

There have been two previous clubs of note in the town. Port-Glasgow Athletic FC (1880-1912) were originally named Broadfield and were seniors. They played most of their career at the atmospheric and somewhat gloomy Clune Park. Members of the Scottish League between 1893 and 1911, Port-Glasgow were promoted to the First Division in 1902. But when the end came, it came swiftly – relegated in 1910, non-league in 1911 (St Johnstone took their place), and defunct in 1912.

Port-Glasgow Athletic Juniors (1896-1939) were originally an adjunct of the senior club, sharing Clune Park with them and taking it over when the seniors went bust. They were great rivals of the Ants, pipping us to the Second Glasgow Junior League title in 1908/09 by a single point (but only after being awarded two points after the season ended). Similarly in the Scottish Junior League in 1910/11. Port were record three times winners of the SJL before the Great War, the Ants later smashing their record with four wins. They lost Clune Park when it was taken over for housing in 1917, sharing Morton's Cappielow Park for four years.

In 1921 Athletic acquired their own ground, Garvel Park, but unfortunately this was also in Greenock, just across the road from Cappielow - for topographical reasons there is not a lot of flat land in Port Glasgow (as the present club knows to its cost). As with so many clubs, Port-Glasgow Athletic Juniors closed down on the outbreak of the Second World War and never returned, leaving the town without Junior football for a whole decade.

ORIGINS OF "THE UNDERTAKERS"

Some record books give the date of formation as being as far back as the 1890s, but this date refers to Port-Glasgow Athletic Juniors, not the present day club. The actual story is complicated. In 1945 an ATC (Air Training Corps) football team was formed, and presumably played mainly inter-squadron matches. The leading light of this team was Jimmy Carlton. This outfit evolved into Clune Rock Juveniles. In 1948 an offshoot of this club became Port Glasgow Athletic Juveniles, a First Class Juvenile side. After just one season the club stepped up a grade as Port Glasgow Juniors and were accepted into the Scottish Central League Division 'B' for 1949/50 (where they met the Ants for the first time). The club they replaced were Forth Rangers, a Grangemouth side who resigned owing to travelling difficulties. Port Glasgow were preferred to Gourock Juniors for the vacant place.

JUST PLAIN WEIRD!

One of the most extraordinary events in Junior football history occurred in 1903 when a team called Port Juniors flitted from Port-Glasgow and set up shop in Dennistoun, Glasgow. No one knows why – maybe the founder(s) of the team moved to Glasgow for business reasons, or possibly unemployment in the shipyards forced the majority of the players to seek work in the big city? Another oddity was that Port had won the Greenock & District Junior Cup in 1902/03 and yet were allowed to defend the trophy the following season despite being members of the Glasgow Junior FA. They played in Division Two of the Glasgow Junior League in 1904/05 but withdrew mid-season. Port Juniors went bust in 1906.

[cmontheloknow]

Osama bin Ant, on 25 March 2012 - 11:22, said:

Lot of b*ll*cks written about the history of Port Glasgow Juniors. The following article appeared in the late lamented St Anthony's programme last August. Hope this is informative...

FOOTBALL IN THE PORT

Originally a village called Newark, the 15th century Newark Castle still stands in the town. Glasgow's need for a deep-water port led to industrialisation and the town became known as Portglasgow & Newark. Later this changed to Port-Glasgow. The hyphen was lost around 1940, so that pre-war club names were hyphenated, while the present club is not.

There have been two previous clubs of note in the town. Port-Glasgow Athletic FC (1880-1912) were originally named Broadfield and were seniors. They played most of their career at the atmospheric and somewhat gloomy Clune Park. Members of the Scottish League between 1893 and 1911, Port-Glasgow were promoted to the First Division in 1902. But when the end came, it came swiftly – relegated in 1910, non-league in 1911 (St Johnstone took their place), and defunct in 1912.

Port-Glasgow Athletic Juniors (1896-1939) were originally an adjunct of the senior club, sharing Clune Park with them and taking it over when the seniors went bust. They were great rivals of the Ants, pipping us to the Second Glasgow Junior League title in 1908/09 by a single point (but only after being awarded two points after the season ended). Similarly in the Scottish Junior League in 1910/11. Port were record three times winners of the SJL before the Great War, the Ants later smashing their record with four wins. They lost Clune Park when it was taken over for housing in 1917, sharing Morton's Cappielow Park for four years.

In 1921 Athletic acquired their own ground, Garvel Park, but unfortunately this was also in Greenock, just across the road from Cappielow - for topographical reasons there is not a lot of flat land in Port Glasgow (as the present club knows to its cost). As with so many clubs, Port-Glasgow Athletic Juniors closed down on the outbreak of the Second World War and never returned, leaving the town without Junior football for a whole decade.

ORIGINS OF "THE UNDERTAKERS"

Some record books give the date of formation as being as far back as the 1890s, but this date refers to Port-Glasgow Athletic Juniors, not the present day club. The actual story is complicated. In 1945 an ATC (Air Training Corps) football team was formed, and presumably played mainly inter-squadron matches. The leading light of this team was Jimmy Carlton. This outfit evolved into Clune Rock Juveniles. In 1948 an offshoot of this club became Port Glasgow Athletic Juveniles, a First Class Juvenile side. After just one season the club stepped up a grade as Port Glasgow Juniors and were accepted into the Scottish Central League Division 'B' for 1949/50 (where they met the Ants for the first time). The club they replaced were Forth Rangers, a Grangemouth side who resigned owing to travelling difficulties. Port Glasgow were preferred to Gourock Juniors for the vacant place.

JUST PLAIN WEIRD!

One of the most extraordinary events in Junior football history occurred in 1903 when a team called Port Juniors flitted from Port-Glasgow and set up shop in Dennistoun, Glasgow. No one knows why – maybe the founder(s) of the team moved to Glasgow for business reasons, or possibly unemployment in the shipyards forced the majority of the players to seek work in the big city? Another oddity was that Port had won the Greenock & District Junior Cup in 1902/03 and yet were allowed to defend the trophy the following season despite being members of the Glasgow Junior FA. They played in Division Two of the Glasgow Junior League in 1904/05 but withdrew mid-season. Port Juniors went bust in 1906.

cheers Osama, would appear to tie in with Brian McColl's version of things i.e. the present Port Juniors being from the 40s with nothing to do with the previous Senior side.

This post has been edited by cmontheloknow: 25 March 2012 - 11:30

[bmccoll]

cmontheloknow, on 25 March 2012 - 11:30, said:

cheers Osama, would appear to tie in with Brian McColl's version of things i.e. the present Port Juniors being from the 40s with nothing to do with the previous Senior side.

I researched the snippets on PG Juniors from the Telegraph in the 1980s, and it reported catagorically that they were an offshoot from Clune Rock Juveniles. They were initially called PG Athletic Juvs, but dropped the latter title when they assumed Junior status, for their own reasons... a fresh start maybe? The pre-war PGA Jrs were intent on leaving Greenock's Garvel Park, where they had played since just after WWI when they lost their Clune Park ground to housing development, and were struggling somewhat against the more successful Morton Juniors that were playing across the road at Cappielow. A proposed move to the Bay area of Port Glasgow fell through in the late 1930s, insurance costs was one reason put forward for this, and I believe the onset of WWII just finished them off.

A club called Port Juniors flitting to Dennistoun... first I've heard of this. PGA Juniors were also termed as Port Juniors during their existence, crossed wires maybe? Perhaps Alistair can elaborate.

[Mon The Port]

still no date for the opening?

not saw anything in the local paper or port glasgow website?

[Mon The Port]

still no news at all on this?

[The Observer]

Mon The Port, on 08 April 2012 - 15:38, said:

still no news at all on this?

why don't you ask 1 of the port committee when your at there next game and you can let us all no

[Mon The Port]

The Observer, on 08 April 2012 - 16:21, said:

why don't you ask 1 of the port committee when your at there next game and you can let us all no

i have never spoken to any of the comittee, maybe will ask the next game im at.

looking on seems to think we wont play there til next season, not sure where he/she got that info from.