[Tryfield]

10 CC ICT, on 10 February 2012 - 21:29, said:

It's like in Peter Pan. Captain Hook being followed around by the crocodile. Tick tick tick tick tick tick.....

Yep, except those who turn a blind eye can't see it coming, they don't want to see it happening because they'll be wrong. All this crap shouldn't be and isn't about who is right and who is wrong, it should be about what is right for the future of the Greeks and the best way forward for everyone else in Euroland.

Greece will default sometime, probably after the bail outs (which wont be repayable) run out.

Crisis reaches boiling point.

[xbl]

Tryfield, on 10 February 2012 - 21:41, said:

Yep, except those who turn a blind eye can't see it coming, they don't want to see it happening because they'll be wrong. All this crap shouldn't be and isn't about who is right and who is wrong, it should be about what is right for the future of the Greeks and the best way forward for everyone else in Euroland.

Greece will default sometime, probably after the bail outs (which wont be repayable) run out.

What if the answer is to stay in the Euro, because leaving it would be far worse?

[vikingTON]

madwullie, on 10 February 2012 - 21:36, said:

I understand sfa about economics and even I realise Greece are utterly fucked and should bin themselves asap. Why are they still getting money they'll never be able to pay back chucked at them?

Because their debt is held by banks, and if they lose the lot at once in a default, then they will need more support by other states and the whole mess progresses like a crap platform game.

They need a substantial - arranged - default and above all, growth. But due to austerity measures, growth ain't happening. So then they need more arranged defaults and we're back to moving onto the crap platform game.

The only way round this is would be if we accept the views of mentalists who think that if only Greece could put its money on print day and night, then everything would be alright, and more importantly, Brussels would sink into a giant black hole of tis own conceit. And then Greece would be trying to barter olive oil for real oil, because lots of money backed only by a crap economy is worthless, but lets not get into that.

This post has been edited by vikingTON: 11 February 2012 - 00:23

[Tryfield]

xbl, on 10 February 2012 - 21:54, said:

What if the answer is to stay in the Euro, because leaving it would be far worse?

Then yes, stay in the Euro.

But the trouble with that is even more debt. Greece should just jack it all in and ask for world aid and get themselves sorted rather than continually being held to ransom by the Troika. Looks like Sunday is decision day.

[SouthEnclosure]

Greece would be better leaving as the euro simply can't serve 17 countries with hugely different needs. Then again the euro is a political project, not a financial one. The political elite will do anything to save it.

[NewBornBairn]

ICTChris, on 07 February 2012 - 10:59, said:

Theodore Dalrymple article on the Eurozone crisis

Interesting article. Makes things a bit clearer.

[vikingTON]

Tryfield, on 11 February 2012 - 03:42, said:

Greece should just jack it all in and ask for world aid

lol wut

Yes, are we going to organise a set of live concerts for their benefit?

[Tryfield]

vikingTON, on 11 February 2012 - 23:42, said:

lol wut

Yes, are we going to organise a set of live concerts for their benefit?

Oh well, maybe they should continue to pay back most of their cash to the IMF, ECB and foreign banks and still have fcuk all to show for all the bail outs they get.


Maybe we can get Geldof and Ure to do a charity concert, "Greece is the Word"?...... at least they would get to keep some of the cash for themselves.



These Europhiles just don't have a clue what is happening.Thank fcuk I'm not a Greek pensioner.

[Tryfield]

Not looking good.....

[xbl]

So, when will "that be that" then? And why hasn't Italy collapsed yet? I thought they were next?

[NewBornBairn]

Some of the background stuff about Greece paints a horrific picture. From the BBC -

Quote

" Take the Greek state railway. It was losing a billion euros a year (and) had more employees than passengers. A former minister, Stefanos Manos, had said publicly at the time that it would be cheaper to send everyone by taxi."

[Ivo den Bieman]

[chico]

Burning as I type.


Good point made in this article about the terms of greece's bailout being so severe
http://www.telegraph...for-Greece.html

[NewBornBairn]

Civil War?

Quote

Venizelos said an unruly default would bring Greece to the verge of civil war,

link

Quote

“The policy of forced 'internal devaluation', deflation, and depression could risk driving Greece to the edge of a civil war.

link

A possibility or just Greek politicians trying to get better terms out of Germany?

[Reynard]

Utter madness

[Tryfield]

That's the riots started.



 650x500.jpg (100.92K)
Number of downloads: 5

This post has been edited by Tryfield: 13 February 2012 - 09:36

[NewBornBairn]

I wonder if Merkel's dusting off the panzers?

[H_B]

Very sad, and very predictable.

Wonder what will happen when the next again set of "new" austerity measures are introduced, because even the current ones won't work, which of course they won't.

[Reynard]

H_B, on 13 February 2012 - 09:14, said:

Very sad, and very predictable.

Wonder what will happen when the next again set of "new" austerity measures are introduced, because even the current ones won't work, which of course they won't.

There would seem to be a debate going on at the highest level of the German government regarding the Greek situation the German finance minister [font="""]Wolfgang Schäuble appears to be calling for even more austerity in an attempt to get the Greeks out of the way and force them out. If his calls for even more austerity and pain are taken up by Merkel then it would look like he has got his argument through. If not, then there will obviously have to be more and more money shoved at Greece by taxpayers throughout the EU. Heres an article giving a bit of an overview of the past 24 hours.

http://www.openeurop...Article?id=8481

This post has been edited by Reynard: 13 February 2012 - 13:08

[Reynard]

At least we got to see real democracy in action as the Greek parliament voted overwhelmingly to accept other peoples money with no strings attached.

[H_B]

I assume there is some sort of endgame of cuts planned by the Greek government, sorry planned by the Eurocrats and the IMF.

Appears to be a sort of "death by a thousand cuts" effort, where they know if they released in one go the actual austerity requirements there would be large scale national rioting. By doing it a little at a time they can try and bleed them slowly, rather than go straight for the jugular.

[Pink Freud]

H_B said:

1329141183[/url]' post='5964318']
I assume there is some sort of endgame of cuts planned by the Greek government, sorry planned by the Eurocrats and the IMF.

Appears to be a sort of "death by a thousand cuts" effort, where they know if they released in one go the actual austerity requirements there would be large scale national rioting. By doing it a little at a time they can try and bleed them slowly, rather than go straight for the jugular.

It'll all be fine.

[Reynard]

H_B, on 13 February 2012 - 13:53, said:

I assume there is some sort of endgame of cuts planned by the Greek government, sorry planned by the Eurocrats and the IMF.

Appears to be a sort of "death by a thousand cuts" effort, where they know if they released in one go the actual austerity requirements there would be large scale national rioting. By doing it a little at a time they can try and bleed them slowly, rather than go straight for the jugular.

They are getting rioting as it is but theres nothing that their government can do other than roll with it. They have no control over the situation, even though they did vote to impose the austerity package could they have done anything else? Reject it and they go bust, accept it and they go bust a little bit later once the puppet masters have worked out an orderly method of default. There's absolutely no doubt now that a default of whatever description will happen. The EU can probably decide when and how now but it is just prolonging the agony for the Greek people. They should have been allowed to get on with it three or four years ago.

A fucking mess.

[H_B]

Reynard, on 13 February 2012 - 14:45, said:

They are getting rioting as it is but theres nothing that their government can do other than roll with it. They have no control over the situation, even though they did vote to impose the austerity package could they have done anything else? Reject it and they go bust, accept it and they go bust a little bit later once the puppet masters have worked out an orderly method of default. There's absolutely no doubt now that a default of whatever description will happen. The EU can probably decide when and how now but it is just prolonging the agony for the Greek people. They should have been allowed to get on with it three or four years ago.

A fucking mess.

They interviewed a few Greeks this morning who were protesting. One said that their government had given them cataclysmic illustrations of what would happen if they default, around not having money for medicines in the hospitals etc.

The guy said "Big fucks, that's the case at the moment".

[xbl]

Reynard, on 13 February 2012 - 14:45, said:

They are getting rioting as it is but theres nothing that their government can do other than roll with it. They have no control over the situation, even though they did vote to impose the austerity package could they have done anything else? Reject it and they go bust, accept it and they go bust a little bit later once the puppet masters have worked out an orderly method of default. There's absolutely no doubt now that a default of whatever description will happen. The EU can probably decide when and how now but it is just prolonging the agony for the Greek people. They should have been allowed to get on with it three or four years ago.

A fucking mess.

Really?