[chico]

Reynard, on 06 May 2011 - 21:12, said:

I'd rather we left them to get on with their Euroshitfest. We will still trade with them and go on holiday to Spain and Greece. But they can f**k up their own economies as they see fit without us needing to be involved. It would be like twenty Gordon Browns asking you to start a business venture. f**k that.

Aye but you'd not need to change yer holiday money and you'd get a few gigs framing up old pounds and coins for the old fashioned.

Sniff the future foxy and embrace the euro.

[Reynard]

chico, on 06 May 2011 - 21:15, said:

Aye but you'd not need to change yer holiday money and you'd get a few gigs framing up old pounds and coins for the old fashioned.

Sniff the future foxy and embrace the euro.

I pass on work like that to pishy high street framers.

[Tryfield]

Reynard, on 06 May 2011 - 20:39, said:

The Germans dont need the Euro. They binned a strong currency to go with the Euro and now they have ended up bailing out the southern European diddies and the Irish. Followed by others in due course.

The Euro project is fooked. Everyone should cut their losses and bin it.

Yep. Wilhelm Hankel and Karl Albrecht Schachtschneider will agree with you there.

[Pink Freud]

vikingTON, on 06 May 2011 - 20:08, said:

How can it be a strong rumour when it has no supporting evidence?

xbl, on 06 May 2011 - 20:18, said:

Fervent wishing counts as evidence. Apparently.

THe reaction of the markets and the strong denials prove, beyond doubt, that it is a believable scenario. Now it's probably just mischief making in the markets, but to pretend there isn;t a shred of truth in the possibility is just wishful thinking on both your parts.

ForzaDundee, on 06 May 2011 - 20:44, said:

Internationalism and the EU are good. All nations should co-operate for the benefit of all.

Unless, of course, you already have a strong union that you will dismantle to join - uh - another union

vikingTON, on 06 May 2011 - 21:14, said:

Greater integration would help German goods in the diddy countries and provide a payback. Seriously, if the choice is decoupling the economies in any way or ramming through more integration, the natural European tendency is the latter. Maybe Germany will sit out, but I doubt it.

And thus democracy dies - not with a bang, but with a Eurowhimper.

[ForzaDundee]

Pink Freud, on 06 May 2011 - 21:59, said:

Unless, of course, you already have a strong union that you will dismantle to join - uh - another union

But leaving the UK would give us a bigger voice in Europe. Just now we've got 6 MEPs, the same number as Luxembourg which means a Luxembourger has the same voice as 10 Scots.

[Pink Freud]

ForzaDundee, on 06 May 2011 - 22:09, said:

But leaving the UK would give us a bigger voice in Europe. Just now we've got 6 MEPs, the same number as Luxembourg which means a Luxembourger has the same voice as 10 Scots.

Hey, it's your decision. I think that the EU is a malevolent wart on the history of Europe, and the sooner its nasty, poisonous, self regarding beauracracy is kicked into the long grass, the better. The notion that nations gain power from being part of it is ludicrous.

By all means, independence if it makes sense to you, but within the Euro and the EU? You're off your nut.

[xbl]

We've got five years of this! Its a triple prong attack...


1. Too wee, too poor, racist braveheart lovers (aka the negative prong).

2. We'd join Europe and Europe is bad (aka the Eurosceptic prong).

3. The Union is great and there are so many benefits to being in it (aka the missing prong).

[Pink Freud]

xbl, on 06 May 2011 - 22:18, said:

We've got five years of this! Its a triple prong attack...


1. Too wee, too poor, racist braveheart lovers (aka the negative prong).

2. We'd join Europe and Europe is bad (aka the Eurosceptic prong).

3. The Union is great and there are so many benefits to being in it (aka the missing prong).

Nothing like oversimplification, eh? If you can't see what is wrong with the Eurozone at the moment, and the utter misery that is in the post for the Irish, Portuguese and Greece if they stay in it for the long haul, you're not really in a position to comment.

Oh, and by the way, this is about the Eurozone, so f**k off to one of your gloating nationalist threads, there's a good lad.

[Sergeant Wilson]

So where will Greece be then? It'll be a bugger moving all those wee islands.

[xbl]

Pink Freud, on 06 May 2011 - 22:40, said:

Oh, and by the way, this is about the Eurozone, so f**k off to one of your gloating nationalist threads, there's a good lad.

Fair enough, I am having a good gloat about things at the moment, so aye, I'll stick to the gloating threads!

[T_S_A_R]

germany is booming. they are bailing out the shite countries but they more than make it back on exports.

greece won't leave the euro. if they issue a new drachma the first thing that would happen is that everyone would change their money back to euros and the currency would collapse.

[Reynard]

T_S_A_R, on 06 May 2011 - 23:44, said:

germany is booming. they are bailing out the shite countries but they more than make it back on exports.

greece won't leave the euro. if they issue a new drachma the first thing that would happen is that everyone would change their money back to euros and the currency would collapse.

From Redwoods blog,


At the end of last week a wide ranging discussion about how to tackle the Greek debt crisis again led to German speculation that Greece was about to leave the Euro zone. The EU authorities moved quickly to deny that strongly. Given that leaving the Euro and devaluing is not an option contemplated in EU circles, they are left with two other options. The first is to give or lend more money to Greece, in the hope that this will allow Greece to sort out her finances so that in due course she can carry on without access to extra EU money. The second is to find a way of allowing Greece to renege on part of her debt or to delay its repayment. The first route entails EU taxpayers paying more to keep Greece going. The second course involves bondholders, savers and banks who have lent Greece money, giving her relief at their expense.

Both of these approaches are based on a heroic assumpiton that this time round tiding Greece over for a bit longer would make all the difference, and she will then miraculously sort out her deficit after a long period when it simply got worse. It was this assumption that was behind the Spring 2010 EU loans to Greece.They were you may remember going to draw a line under the Euro debt crisis and solve the problems. This assumption was beind the agreement to extend the length of the loans in the autumn of 2010 when the package was renegotiated for the first time. Now it falls to be renegotiated yet again.

The truth is this model of financing a country and keeping it tied into the Euro system does not work. It threatens losses for the banking system of the whole Euro area, as European banks have been told by regulators to own more sovereign debt of Euroland countries. It is this very debt, thought to be a high class safe asset, that now is being buffetted by the markets and may not be repaid in full on time in the case of the weakest countries.

The UK should make it clear that any new Greek package is a matter for the Euroland zone alone, and should not allow general EU money to be used to perpetuate a myth that fiddling around with the terms and size of the borrowing is the answer to this problem. The answer for Greece is an economic policy that delivers growth, and more realistic levels of state spending.

We read that France is not keen to be more generous on the loans, whilet Germany seems to think tougher conditions on the very loans Greece wishes to relax would do the job for the third time of asking. There are limits to how long they can carry on trying to muddle through. The markets are not impressed, because they know the weaker countries of Euroland have to grow faster, generate more tax revenue, and cut spending sensibly. These countries need a work out, not a bail out. Being in the Euro makes their recovery more difficult. Having weak players in the Euro also makes the position of the stronger members of the Euro weaker. The richer countries will have to pay more of the bills of the weaker members if they are to keep everyone in the currency.

[Tryfield]

German MP Frank Schnaeffler wants to help the Greeks leave the Euro and return to the Drachma.

[H_B]

It's magic sitting on the sidelines with Pounds in the wallet watching this farce develop.

Hopefully Cameron and Osborne do a Nelson Muntz.

[Reynard]

H_B, on 10 May 2011 - 09:19, said:

It's magic sitting on the sidelines with Pounds in the wallet watching this farce develop.

Hopefully Cameron and Osborne do a Nelson Muntz.

It certainly is. It's just a shame we aren't sitting fully outside of the EU pointing and laughing at them.

[H_B]

Reynard, on 10 May 2011 - 09:21, said:

It certainly is. It's just a shame we aren't sitting fully outside of the EU pointing and laughing at them.

Indeed.

It's also nice to be chuckling-turning-into-a-cough when talking to Irish friends who were wanking furiously about the Celtic Tiger and Ireland's leaving Britain trailing in its wake 10 years ago.

How did that work out for you? Chortle, chortle...

[xbl]

Wow. Its like watching 4 year olds talking economics, and thats coming from me. All currencies have their highs and lows, especially something new like this. It'll be fine.

[Tryfield]

xbl, on 10 May 2011 - 09:28, said:

Wow. Its like watching 4 year olds talking economics, and thats coming from me. All currencies have their highs and lows, especially something new like this. It'll be fine.

327 billion Euro's of debt is a wee bit too low wouldn't you say? Not to worry, Brussels, London and Edinburgh will soon be rattling the tins. Watch your taxes going up before they come down.

[xbl]

Tryfield, on 10 May 2011 - 09:33, said:

327 billion Euro's of debt is a wee bit too low wouldn't you say? Not to worry, Brussels, London and Edinburgh will soon be rattling the tins. Watch your taxes going up before they come down.

Are you the Sun? You seem to be talking entirely in ridiculous headlines.

[Reynard]

xbl, on 10 May 2011 - 09:28, said:

Wow. Its like watching 4 year olds talking economics, and thats coming from me. All currencies have their highs and lows, especially something new like this. It'll be fine.

Could you explain to us WHY it will be fine please?

I strongly suspect you haven't a clue.

[xbl]

Reynard, on 10 May 2011 - 09:45, said:

Could you explain to us WHY it will be fine please?

I strongly suspect you haven't a clue.

Because it will. Again, this is like your independence thinking. You're playing the short game of yesterday, today, and tomorrow. This isn't a game on dominos, its a long term project. It might be going through tough times now, but ultimately, it'll be fine.

[H_B]

xbl, on 10 May 2011 - 09:47, said:

Because it will.

Well, I'm convinced.

[Reynard]

xbl, on 10 May 2011 - 09:47, said:

Because it will. Again, this is like your independence thinking. You're playing the short game of yesterday, today, and tomorrow. This isn't a game on dominos, its a long term project. It might be going through tough times now, but ultimately, it'll be fine.

I didn't think you'd come up with anything somehow. I was right.

[Tryfield]

xbl, on 10 May 2011 - 09:44, said:

Are you the Sun? You seem to be talking entirely in ridiculous headlines.

The 327 billion Euro's in debt came from Reuters, not The Sun. I just added the wee truthful bit at the end.

[H_B]

The "European Economic Advisory Group" have concluded that Greece are fucked either way.

http://openeuropeblo...aving-euro.html

Interestingly :-

"Meanwhile, FAZ today reports that more than 200 German Professors, amongst them Dr. Sinn, have warned in a petition to the German Government, against extending the eurozone bailout. They call upon the German government to prepare for a possible failure of the eurozone aid scheme and (...) prepare a detailed insolvency plan for eurozone countries with excessive debt. This is the only way, they argue, to avoid collectivising the debt of member states, which leads to higher taxes and higher inflation in the EU as a whole."

Oh dear oh dear...