[The Goalie]

qos_75, on 16 April 2011 - 22:04, said:

I don't think we can afford him now anyway. Think cheaper than cheap.

Rowan Alexander?

[qos_75]

The Goalie, on 16 April 2011 - 22:22, said:

Rowan Alexander?

Not even in jest.

[The Goalie]

qos_75, on 16 April 2011 - 22:23, said:

Not even in jest.

its not out with the relms of possiblity tho?

in all honesty i can see us with someone like that next season.

[MacWatt]

Apart from being a fan of the club what is Davie Rae (and the Board for that matter) bringing to the club now. Certainly not strong leadership, a vision for the future, sound business acumen, entrepreneurial flare, communication skills? Must I go on. What he could bring to the club is to continue to finance a manageable deficit until (and if) we ever get any money for the tesco site to allow us to retain a core of full time players.

I suspect that with some prudent management we could fund this for no more than a £250,000 loss over the next couple of years.

I don't know how many millions Rae got for the sale of Smallholm, Smallholmburn and Upper Dormont Farms, but he sold them when the Irish were paying silly money for farms in D & G. I think the best contribution he could make would to invest a small amount of this in the team over the next couple years.

Either that or he should bugger off and let someone more capable lead the club.

[FC_1919]

Were the farms owned by Davie Rae something that were handed down to him?

[MacWatt]

He certainly inherited Smallholm from his Aunt and Uncle and then bought Smallholmburn. Not sure about Upper Dormont which he rented at first.

[southview]

Skyline Drifter, on 16 April 2011 - 22:18, said:

Really? Have Cowden? Has any team in this division told their "Out of Contract" players whether they will be getting new deals next season or not? I'd be surprised if they have.

I have to say of all the things that are getting moaned about at the moment this is the issue that surprises me most. I understand why people think the manager's position should be sorted out. I wouldn't disagree. I understand why people want to criticise Davie or the Board's handling of the finances and the spat with the Standard this week. Lord knows they could have been handled much better. I don't understand why it's suddenly the crime of the century to have a pile of players who are out of contract at the end of the season who don't know yet whether they will get a new deal or not?

I can't remember out of contract players ever being told before the season was dead (which it only was after today) and seldom before the last ball is kicked. Brannigan himself didn't tell ANY of the out of contract players last season whether they would be offered anything until after the season was finished. Neither did Chisholm, McCall or Connolly before him (I think Iain Scott actually did). Why it's some crime not to do so now I have no idea? Such is the way in football. They all sign fixed term contracts and they run out. All that's different with us this season is that we don't actually have many signed up beyond the end of this season (there are three first team squad members under contract for next year). However, whether we have three, eight, ten or fourteen I fail to see what odds it makes to those who aren't signed up. If footballers are really unhappy with having contracts that are set to run out and with an uncertain future then I'd suggest they are in the wrong career.

I agree with pretty much all of this actually. It's not unusual for players to be told they are getting a new deal or being released until the end of the season.

In fact, there were probably a good number of the 2008 cup final team out of contract at the end of May. But I don't remember a song and dance being created then.

I suppose back then those players knew they'd pick up something somewhere after their heroics but the point still stands.

In terms of Queens' situation, I can understand to a degree the 'silence' on the future up until now but this afternoon's results change all that.

The club can now plan ahead for First Division football given we can't be promoted/relegated and I would hope to hear some details as the week progresses. The board will know by now if it's full-time football, part-time football or a 'Raith Rovers' full/part-time caper.

I think KB is out the door so, with respect, we may as well relieve him of his duties now, put Neil Scally in caretaker charge and begin the recruitment process, maybe have someone in place by around the time of the last game of the season.

If next season is going to be as difficult as feared, the more time the new manager gets to plan and recruit, the better.

[die hard doonhamer]

Sack the board!

[robqosfc]

100% agree Skyline!

[Monkey Tennis]

Skyline Drifter, on 16 April 2011 - 22:18, said:

Really? Have Cowden? Has any team in this division told their "Out of Contract" players whether they will be getting new deals next season or not? I'd be surprised if they have.

I have to say of all the things that are getting moaned about at the moment this is the issue that surprises me most. I understand why people think the manager's position should be sorted out. I wouldn't disagree. I understand why people want to criticise Davie or the Board's handling of the finances and the spat with the Standard this week. Lord knows they could have been handled much better. I don't understand why it's suddenly the crime of the century to have a pile of players who are out of contract at the end of the season who don't know yet whether they will get a new deal or not?

I can't remember out of contract players ever being told before the season was dead (which it only was after today) and seldom before the last ball is kicked. Brannigan himself didn't tell ANY of the out of contract players last season whether they would be offered anything until after the season was finished. Neither did Chisholm, McCall or Connolly before him (I think Iain Scott actually did). Why it's some crime not to do so now I have no idea? Such is the way in football. They all sign fixed term contracts and they run out. All that's different with us this season is that we don't actually have many signed up beyond the end of this season (there are three first team squad members under contract for next year). However, whether we have three, eight, ten or fourteen I fail to see what odds it makes to those who aren't signed up. If footballers are really unhappy with having contracts that are set to run out and with an uncertain future then I'd suggest they are in the wrong career.

Yes, this had crossed my mind.

In some respects, it does seem unfair on players, but it's a reflection on the modern football world at this level, rather than anything peculiar to Queens this season. Players are generally on 1 or 2 year deals, which mean that in any given summer, plenty will expire. That situation is perhaps a little exaggerated in numerical terms for us this year due to cost-cutting, but for the individuals concerned, the situation is as we (and they) would expect.

Yet again, it's something which KB has had a public whinge about and it therefore provides an opportunity for people to have a go at the Chairman and the Board. There are enough legitimate gripes surely, without people finding new and inventive ones.

[Aberdeen Cowden]

Skyline Drifter, on 16 April 2011 - 22:18, said:

Really? Have Cowden? Has any team in this division told their "Out of Contract" players whether they will be getting new deals next season or not? I'd be surprised if they have.

I have to say of all the things that are getting moaned about at the moment this is the issue that surprises me most. I understand why people think the manager's position should be sorted out. I wouldn't disagree. I understand why people want to criticise Davie or the Board's handling of the finances and the spat with the Standard this week. Lord knows they could have been handled much better. I don't understand why it's suddenly the crime of the century to have a pile of players who are out of contract at the end of the season who don't know yet whether they will get a new deal or not?

I can't remember out of contract players ever being told before the season was dead (which it only was after today) and seldom before the last ball is kicked. Brannigan himself didn't tell ANY of the out of contract players last season whether they would be offered anything until after the season was finished. Neither did Chisholm, McCall or Connolly before him (I think Iain Scott actually did). Why it's some crime not to do so now I have no idea? Such is the way in football. They all sign fixed term contracts and they run out. All that's different with us this season is that we don't actually have many signed up beyond the end of this season (there are three first team squad members under contract for next year). However, whether we have three, eight, ten or fourteen I fail to see what odds it makes to those who aren't signed up. If footballers are really unhappy with having contracts that are set to run out and with an uncertain future then I'd suggest they are in the wrong career.

Different for Cowden as they don't know which division they'll be playing in next season. This isn't the case for your team (unless there is something a lot more serious going on)
Don't think a chairman who refuses to speak to his players/manager is normal no matter what career you are in.

[kirkyblue2]

FC_1919, on 16 April 2011 - 20:38, said:

Did Sandra Brown really say on Open All Mic's, that ALL contract will be allowed to expire?

KB said Rae phoned him on Tuesday and told him he wasn't going to talk to him and he was waiting until the league reconstruction talks were finished. KB has assumed the contracts will be allowed to expire. His should be ripped up in front of him.

[Swarley]

kirkyblue2, on 17 April 2011 - 09:33, said:

.... he was waiting until the league reconstruction talks were finished.....

Does anyone know when that is likely to be?

[FC_1919]

kirkyblue2, on 17 April 2011 - 09:33, said:

KB said Rae phoned him on Tuesday and told him he wasn't going to talk to him and he was waiting until the league reconstruction talks were finished. KB has assumed the contracts will be allowed to expire. His should be ripped up in front of him.

You will hate the new manager within weeks anyway,

[MB]

Too much dirty linen has been washed in public, and for that fact alone KB has talked himself out of a job. However, the blame game is a two-way process in this instance. The Board of Directors have shown a singular inability to lead and manage the club through challenging times. I only hope that when this horrific season eventually ends that the club will pull together. The future may not be as bleak as many of us think as many clubs at this level are suffering financial woes. Cost-cutting will be apparent in more than one or two boardrooms. However, we need some positive news about the future direction of the club, and above all a period of stability.

[Monkey Tennis]

MB, on 17 April 2011 - 10:00, said:

Too much dirty linen has been washed in public, and for that fact alone KB has talked himself out of a job. However, the blame game is a two-way process in this instance. The Board of Directors have shown a singular inability to lead and manage the club through challenging times. I only hope that when this horrific season eventually ends that the club will pull together. The future may not be as bleak as many of us think as many clubs at this level are suffering financial woes. Cost-cutting will be apparent in more than one or two boardrooms. However, we need some positive news about the future direction of the club, and above all a period of stability.

I'd agree with all of that.

The delay with the Cup Final prolonged our season and perhaps put off for a while the stage we've now reached.

You're right in that the future needn't necessarily be all that bleak, but effective leadership is now what's needed.

[Skyline Drifter]

Aberdeen Cowden, on 17 April 2011 - 07:45, said:

Different for Cowden as they don't know which division they'll be playing in next season. This isn't the case for your team (unless there is something a lot more serious going on)
Don't think a chairman who refuses to speak to his players/manager is normal no matter what career you are in.

Ok. Different for Cowden is it? Fair enough. So you're saying players should be told as soon as you know what division they are playing in then.

Personally I think that's nonsense but running with it for the moment. Morton, Thistle and Stirling know for sure what division they'll be in next season. Can we presume none of those clubs have any out of contract players who don't know their futures at this point? What about all the clubs in other divisions who know too? They presumably also don't have any uninformed out of contract players, no? I'd bet they do. And I'd also bet they are not getting roundly criticised for it. This happens every single year in football. I accept we have more than usual this year but I fail to see how that changes the principle at all? If players are entitled to know before the season ends why isn't a fuss kicked up every year?

And why does Brannigan himself, who didn't tell any of the ones last year until the season was finished (and we knew what division we'd be in for well over a month), suddenly think that the same happening this year is some sort of crime? The answer to that is obvious of course. It's because it's not HIM getting to decide when to tell them. It's ok to not tell players until after the season ends if he decides it but not if it's out of his control apparently. Incredible double standards to be honest but some people are buying it.

This post has been edited by Skyline Drifter: 17 April 2011 - 10:59

[Monkey Tennis]

Skyline Drifter, on 17 April 2011 - 10:54, said:

And why does Brannigan himself, who didn't tell any of the ones last year until the season was finished (and we knew what division we'd be in for well over a month), suddenly think that the same happening this year is some sort of crime? The answer to that is obvious of course. It's because it's not HIM getting to decide when to tell them. It's ok to not tell players until after the season ends if he decides it but not if it's out of his control apparently. Incredible double standards to be honest but some people are buying it.

That's dead right.

Unfortunately, a great many people seem to be buying it.

Now that things have come to a head, of sorts, I actually think it's time for the board to defend themslves on this a bit.

Again, they'd have difficulty defending themselves against some of the charges levelled against them, but with this one, they're surely on firmer ground. Instead, when we do hear from the board, it seems to take the form of last week's nonsense or whines about the winter's weather.
We're past the stage where the board need to continue to pretend there's any unity between them and KB, so it's time they stopped surrendering any propaganda advantage to him.

I'm unhappy with the board, but they'll be around longer than KB and I think they need to start working harder at taking people with them.

This post has been edited by Monkey Tennis: 17 April 2011 - 11:24

[kirkyblue2]

Monkey Tennis, on 17 April 2011 - 11:17, said:

That's dead right.

Unfortunately, a great many people seem to be buying it.

Now that things have come to a head, of sorts, I actually think it's time for the board to defend themslves on this a bit.

Again, they'd have difficulty defending themselves against some of the charges levelled against them, but with this one, they're surely on firmer ground. Instead, when we do hear from the board, it seems to take the form of last week's nonsense or whines about the winter's weather.
We're past the stage where the board need to continue to pretend there's any unity between them and KB, so it's time they stopped surrendering any propaganda advantage to him.

I'm unhappy with the board, but they'll be around longer than KB and I think they need to start working harder at taking people with them.

Davie Rae should tell KB to go. How many people really think he should stay after all he's said in public?

[Monkey Tennis]

kirkyblue2, on 17 April 2011 - 15:51, said:

Davie Rae should tell KB to go. How many people really think he should stay after all he's said in public?

I really hope QOSMad doesn't present an accurate cross-section of our support; but if it does, the answer to your question is an alarmingly large number.

This post has been edited by Monkey Tennis: 18 April 2011 - 06:13

[Zorr-oh!]

Skyline Drifter, on 17 April 2011 - 10:54, said:

Ok. Different for Cowden is it? Fair enough. So you're saying players should be told as soon as you know what division they are playing in then.

Personally I think that's nonsense but running with it for the moment. Morton, Thistle and Stirling know for sure what division they'll be in next season. Can we presume none of those clubs have any out of contract players who don't know their futures at this point? What about all the clubs in other divisions who know too? They presumably also don't have any uninformed out of contract players, no? I'd bet they do. And I'd also bet they are not getting roundly criticised for it. This happens every single year in football. I accept we have more than usual this year but I fail to see how that changes the principle at all? If players are entitled to know before the season ends why isn't a fuss kicked up every year?

And why does Brannigan himself, who didn't tell any of the ones last year until the season was finished (and we knew what division we'd be in for well over a month), suddenly think that the same happening this year is some sort of crime? The answer to that is obvious of course. It's because it's not HIM getting to decide when to tell them. It's ok to not tell players until after the season ends if he decides it but not if it's out of his control apparently. Incredible double standards to be honest but some people are buying it.

Got to agree with you Skyline all players at whatever level know that their contracts will run out and its suits them that way as they are able to go out and try and get a new one somewhere else if the monies better. Players look after number one and loyalty is dictated by their pay packet, having watched Queens a few times this season I am staggered that some are on full time contracts anyway as to be honest they are at best average. The board of directors have made mistakes without doubt, but their biggest one was going full time. The size of crowds in the first division are far to small and to compensate the price to get in then becomes far to expensive for the level of football being played. Queens have in the past been successfull with part time players and hopfully will be again. KB will be no loss as his constant whinging stopped me from going if his job was as bad as he made out he should have packed in and went somewhere else , I'm sure clubs will be queing up for him at the end of the season. Queens will have no touble getting another manager or players but lets hope that this one is'nt scared to play young exciting players and try to play with the ball on the ground instead of the aimless hump up the park to some lifeless giant.

This post has been edited by Zorr-oh!: 17 April 2011 - 19:50

[Mr X]

Skyline Drifter, on 17 April 2011 - 10:54, said:

Ok. Different for Cowden is it? Fair enough. So you're saying players should be told as soon as you know what division they are playing in then.

Personally I think that's nonsense but running with it for the moment. Morton, Thistle and Stirling know for sure what division they'll be in next season. Can we presume none of those clubs have any out of contract players who don't know their futures at this point? What about all the clubs in other divisions who know too? They presumably also don't have any uninformed out of contract players, no? I'd bet they do. And I'd also bet they are not getting roundly criticised for it. This happens every single year in football. I accept we have more than usual this year but I fail to see how that changes the principle at all? If players are entitled to know before the season ends why isn't a fuss kicked up every year?

And why does Brannigan himself, who didn't tell any of the ones last year until the season was finished (and we knew what division we'd be in for well over a month), suddenly think that the same happening this year is some sort of crime? The answer to that is obvious of course. It's because it's not HIM getting to decide when to tell them. It's ok to not tell players until after the season ends if he decides it but not if it's out of his control apparently. Incredible double standards to be honest but some people are buying it.

For me, the issue isnt so much how the players and manager have been treated, but more the lack of any, apparent, planning by the club and the, very visible, lack of any sort of communication what so ever.

In terms of planning, come the end of the season we'll have no manager and two "senior" players - one of who, apparently, has his agent trying to secure a move away from the club anyway. We have some good players at the club at the moment, many of who - if you believe what they say - would really like to stay at the club, but instead of opening any dialogue with them the BoD are happy to just let them go and replace them with ... well, nobody! If it was 5 or 6 players out of contract, we would still have the core of a side for next season and nobody would have really bothered about this, IMO. But to be left with no players, no manager and no money is frankly appalling management.

It reminds of the Only Fools and Horses episode where Del says "We're traders with nothing to trade and no money to buy" The only difference here is we dont have Del and Rodney either!

[Swarley]

Mr X, on 18 April 2011 - 09:55, said:

We have some good players at the club at the moment, many of who - if you believe what they say - would really like to stay at the club, but instead of opening any dialogue with them the BoD are happy to just let them go and replace them with ... well, nobody! If it was 5 or 6 players out of contract, we would still have the core of a side for next season and nobody would have really bothered about this, IMO. But to be left with no players, no manager and no money is frankly appalling management.

Perhaps some of the current players would be happy to take a pay cut to stay? But we'll never know that because it appears that no one is going to even ask them.

[Mr X]

Swarley, on 18 April 2011 - 10:10, said:

Perhaps some of the current players would be happy to take a pay cut to stay? But we'll never know that because it appears that no one is going to even ask them.

I dont know. Its, obviously, easy for the players to sit in front of the fans and say how much they'd love to stay but the ones I saw all seemed genuine enough - maybe they could take up careers in acting once their current contracts expire.

If you look through the squad, I can think of at least 9 players I would like to keep, maybe 6 or 7 that are good enough to build a team around, but every single one of these will be gone come the end of the season without even an attempt to get them to stay. Now, either David Raes opinion of these players varies wildly from mine, we're financially more screwed than we think or this is a monumental screw up.

What makes it worse, is that - once again - the information has 'leaked' out unofficially and, yet again, the club are saying nothing at all. I dont expect contract negotiations etc to be carried out in public but, surely to god, the club should be saying something about whats going on?

[Swarley]

Mr X, on 18 April 2011 - 10:19, said:

What makes it worse, is that - once again - the information has 'leaked' out unofficially and, yet again, the club are saying nothing at all. I dont expect contract negotiations etc to be carried out in public but, surely to god, the club should be saying something about whats going on?

Personally I blame the Official site Webmaster, I think he must be failing to update the site with the latest news....