[Supras]

Apparently Andy Walker was on Talkshite earlier saying that Scotland is no longer passionate about football.

Oh dear, by almost every count Scotland remains one of the most passionate footballing countries on earth, and comfortably the most passionate in the UK. Good pandering to the little Englanders though, c**t.

This post has been edited by Supras: 26 August 2011 - 20:40

[P45]

Supras, on 26 August 2011 - 15:59, said:

If people don't want to believes in facts and context then that is their perogative.

People are idiots anyway, it's no real surprise to me they cling onto their conjecture and Sun cliches.

Ah, the Scottish Football Gospel according to Supras.

Don't believe facts, believe me!

[HibeeJibee]

BerwickMad, on 26 August 2011 - 19:46, said:

Bollocks. In a smaller league you devalue the derbies and playing the big teams doesn't mean as much.

But the balance must be taken between making games a bit more special by having only half of them... and the impact of having only half of them. The pro and semi-pro game is dependant on money. When the consequence of the 2x playing system is the big mid-table (which hits crowds as lots of fans, evidently, attend when games matter) and fewer games in total, then the proposal is to address things by slashing income. That's a difficult sell.

BerwickMad, on 26 August 2011 - 19:46, said:

I attended every game one season and only missed one the season after. I've lost count the number of times ive been to some places. It's boring, and at least Berwick have been spread over two leagues. I must be horrific for a Killie fan or an Aberdeen fan.

That's very impressive. But as someone who followed your side home-and-away you were one of <10% of the attending football public. As someone who attends most of his team's home games and a few away games, I am one of 90>% of the footballing public. I appreciate that for the travelling supporter who like variety of grounds (i.e. rated above tight, competitive leagues) small leagues are bad - but they're a very small portion of the attending fanbase.

You'd also think cup-ties would attract big crowds, from novelty factor, but they don't. And with a Hibs hat on, I don't see fans wanting to swap 3 games v OF/Hearts, for 3 games v Partick/Raith/Morton. It is a really difficult situation. I have no doubt that some hard-core fans would have a nicer experience, and perhaps travel a bit more, if there is more variety... the problem is the more typical fan, though.

The evidence from previous experience here, and experience abroad, suggests that attendances fall in big leagues with mid-tables... There are also only half the big derbies (even if each of the 4 gets a bit less than they would if there were 2) and half the clashes between big sides in races. There are also only 30/34 games in the first place - not 36/38. And all of that harms TV revenue/sponsorship when we're talking about the SPL. So it comes back to what I said before... in an ideal scenario, I'm sure everyone would have 20-team leagues or similar. Currently, we do not live in a ideal scenario...

BerwickMad, on 26 August 2011 - 19:46, said:

You on the other hand sit there looking at statistics and shite.

In these sorts of topics I try to be pragmatic and look at the facts, yes.

[EdTheDuck]

Supras, on 26 August 2011 - 20:05, said:

Apparently Tom Boyd was on Talkshite earlier saying that Scotland is no longer passionate about football.

Oh dear, by almost every count Scotland remains one of the most passionate footballing countries on earth, and comfortably the most passionate in the UK. Good pandering to the little Englanders though, c**t.

I can't wait until tomorrow's Sportsound. Chic will have been feverishly thumbing his way through the thesaurus to fill the airwaves with ever more apocalyptic adjectives to proclaim the death of scottish football ™

[HibeeJibee]

EdTheDuck, on 26 August 2011 - 20:16, said:

I can't wait until tomorrow's Sportsound. Chic will have been feverishly thumbing his way through the thesaurus to fill the airwaves with ever more apocalyptic adjectives to proclaim the death of scottish football ™

Of course this will all be forgotten pretty quickly, as it has been every time the OF have previously slipped-up in Europe or the national team lost a winnable game. We had the same situation exactly 12 months ago when Lennon made a meal of things (sound familiar?), against Utrecht, and Dundee Utd narrowly lost to AEK Athens (a game that no-one should ever have expected them to be winning).

On 'Off the Ball' last night, Tom English said it'd all be forgotten about when the first OF derby is due. I disagree: if Scotland beat the Czechs + Lithuanians in a week's time, all will be called rosy again.

[EdTheDuck]

HibeeJibee, on 26 August 2011 - 20:22, said:

Of course this will all be forgotten pretty quickly, as it has been every time the OF have previously slipped-up in Europe or the national team lost a winnable game. We had the same situation exactly 12 months ago when Lennon made a meal of things (sound familiar?), against Utrecht, and Dundee Utd narrowly lost to AEK Athens (a game that no-one should ever have expected them to be winning).

On 'Off the Ball' last night, Tom English said it'd all be forgotten about when the first OF derby is due. I disagree: if Scotland beat the Czechs + Lithuanians in a week's time, all will be called rosy again.

Welllllll, it would be but...
If celtic are being royally rogered several more times over the next few months then it'll be a constant theme, but regardless cometh the OF derby cometh the greatest club game in the world

[Supras]

P45, on 26 August 2011 - 20:10, said:

Ah, the Scottish Football Gospel according to Supras.

Don't believe facts, believe me!

Eh, but me and HJ have been posting plenty of facts to back up our argument and they are as varied as coefficient rankings, population rankings and newspaper clipings from the 60s.

We can't discuss your facts cause, well, you don't have any.

[HibeeJibee]

EdTheDuck, on 26 August 2011 - 20:31, said:

Welllllll, it would be but...
If celtic are being royally rogered several more times over the next few months then it'll be a constant theme, but regardless cometh the OF derby cometh the greatest club game in the world

If Celtic do get reinstated Neil Lennon will know he has to raise his game... he's had 6 games now which have all been huge disappointments, in 4 cases against inferior opposition, and whatever his 'honeymoon' period, it wouldn't last 6 drubbings unaffected.

Equally, they don't have better players and resources than Atletico Madrid and Udinese - nor probably Rennes - and expectations would be tempered somewhat.

[P45]

Supras, on 26 August 2011 - 20:34, said:

Eh, but me and HJ have been posting plenty of facts to back up our argument and they are as varied as coefficient rankings, population rankings and newspaper clipings from the 60s.

We can't discuss your facts cause, well, you don't have any.

Clearly you believe so strongly that you are correct that there's no purpose in discussing any point.

To say that Scottish teams do well in Europe, and that the SPL is a great league is laughable IMO.

[HibeeJibee]

P45, on 26 August 2011 - 20:48, said:

Clearly you believe so strongly that you are correct that there's no purpose in discussing any point.

Which coincidentally enough you never do, you just throw insults/hystericisms without contributing anything.

P45, on 26 August 2011 - 20:48, said:

To say that Scottish teams do well in Europe, and that the SPL is a great league is laughable IMO.

We do well in Europe. We haven't this season.

The SPL's a good league, and a great league for our size.

[Supras]

P45, on 26 August 2011 - 20:48, said:

Clearly you believe so strongly that you are correct that there's no purpose in discussing any point.

To say that Scottish teams do well in Europe, and that the SPL is a great league is laughable IMO.

See, this is where you - and people like you - get it so wrong. You have completely misunderstood what we are saying. The SPL is most certainly a great league, but crucially only in comparison to leagues from nations of similar size. That would be your Georgia, Irelands, Slovakias, Finlands etc. We are a fantastic league in comparison to those nations and we do far better in Europe. Laugh if you want, but you are laughing at facts.

My belief system is based on - and subject to - facts. If they change my opinion will change. If we start to rank lowest of nations our size then I will be concerned for the future of Scottish football. If nations far smaller than ourselves consistently rank ahead then I will be concerned.

The current situation whereby very few nations of similar size are above us whilst we rank ahead of several far larger nations I am not concerned, we are in a decent or good position at the moment. But, as I've discussed at depth in the past, we would far rather talk ourselves down than realise this obvious truth.

[HibeeJibee]

The latest bit of "Ally and Neil did all they could" deflective whataboutery comes in today's Scotland on Sunday... where McCoist "argues that the effort to claim the title in May, coupled with the very early start to the SPL season, worked against his players".

Am I not right in saying that the first leg against Malmo was a whole 3 days after the SPL started?

[Thumper]

HibeeJibee, on 26 August 2011 - 20:22, said:

On 'Off the Ball' last night, Tom English said it'd all be forgotten about when the first OF derby is due.

If only he were in a position to frame the national debate.

HibeeJibee, on 28 August 2011 - 11:23, said:

The latest bit of "Ally and Neil did all they could" deflective whataboutery comes in today's Scotland on Sunday... where McCoist "argues that the effort to claim the title in May, coupled with the very early start to the SPL season, worked against his players".

That's fine, then. We'll just move the Champions League playoff round to the middle of September. Of course this will mean playing the final in June. I can't imagine any of the larger nations objecting to this at all.

This post has been edited by Thumper: 30 August 2011 - 12:26