[northernscum]

Another pathetic display in europe for our clubs.
What is going on, we are going to end up like the Welsh & Irish leagues european success rates.
How do we change things?

[McKee]

lol

[craigkillie]

Celtic's performance was dreadful.

The other two did exactly as well as expected.

[guacamole]

northernscum, on 26 August 2010 - 20:36, said:

Another pathetic display in europe for our clubs.
What is going on, we are going to end up like the Welsh & Irish leagues european success rates.
How do we change things?

Losing 2-1 on aggregate to AEK Athens is pathetic? Wow, you're tough.

[Shawfield Stallion]

GITTITUPRAPARK!

[Breaking Decency]

northernscum, on 26 August 2010 - 20:36, said:

Another pathetic display in europe for our clubs.
What is going on, we are going to end up like the Welsh & Irish leagues european success rates.
How do we change things?

How do we change things? By realising that we're not as good as we think we are (note: usually only really applies to the OF).

[HibeeJibee]

I think the SPL should be starting earlier, 23rd or 30th July next season... to get our clubs better prepared. Aside from that, nothing can be done at all.

Celtic lost to (on paper) a weaker outfit.

Motherwell and Dundee Utd both lost to seeded opponents.


Radio talk will be full of "winter break" and "18-team SPL"... Celtic didn't lose for a lack of 3 weeks off in January, or not playing Raith + Morton.

Ultimately, Scotland + our clubs aren't sufficiently good at football.

[northernscum]

guacamole, on 26 August 2010 - 20:37, said:

Losing 2-1 on aggregate to AEK Athens is pathetic? Wow, you're tough.

Do you not recall the times when your club put Barcelona out of europe?
If you're happy enough with a "brave defeat" to AEK Athens then that just shows how low we have sunk.

[HibeeJibee]

Breaking Decency, on 26 August 2010 - 20:39, said:

How do we change things? By realising that we're not as good as we think we are (note: usually only really applies to the OF).

Also, this. We have to realise we're the drunkard, smoker and unhealthy eater of Europe, have 5M people... and utilise a style of football, tactical and technical, which is outdated.

We have been surpassed by many, many others.

We're a middling European football nation.

[chico]

i blame rangers.

[craigkillie]

northernscum, on 26 August 2010 - 20:41, said:

Do you not recall the times when your club put Barcelona out of europe?
If you're happy enough with a "brave defeat" to AEK Athens then that just shows how low we have sunk.

I don't know if you've noticed, but European football has changed slightly since the 70s and 80s.

[guacamole]

Starting the season earlier would probably not have helped us, I'm pretty sure the Greek season hasn't started yet. As I said on another thread, only one of our three teams were humiliated tonight.

[nofixedability]

HibeeJibee, on 26 August 2010 - 20:41, said:

We're a middling European football nation.

We're really not that good.

[northernscum]

craigkillie, on 26 August 2010 - 20:42, said:

I don't know if you've noticed, but European football has changed slightly since the 70s and 80s.

Aye i've noticed, but it only seems to be going in one direction for Scotland.

[HibeeJibee]

northernscum, on 26 August 2010 - 20:41, said:

Do you not recall the times when your club put Barcelona out of europe?
If you're happy enough with a "brave defeat" to AEK Athens then that just shows how low we have sunk.

You seriously think that Dundee Utd, 3rd placed club in Scotland... should have been expecting to put out AEK Athens, 3rd placed club in Greece?

Actually, of course you do (probably). Just another example of the delusion and nostalgia which blinds so many among our people.

Huge reality check needed.


It's 2010. We're small, + aren't particularly good. Rest of the continent has caught up / is catching up.

[Desert Nomad]

HibeeJibee, on 26 August 2010 - 20:40, said:

I think the SPL should be starting earlier, 23rd or 30th July next season... to get our clubs better prepared. Aside from that, nothing can be done at all.

Celtic lost to (on paper) a weaker outfit.

Motherwell and Dundee Utd both lost to seeded opponents.


Radio talk will be full of "winter break" and "18-team SPL"... Celtic didn't lose for a lack of 3 weeks off in January, or not playing Raith + Morton.

Ultimately, Scotland + our clubs aren't sufficiently good at football.

No disgrace to either United or Well, lost to superior opponents as expected. Celtic losing to a Dutch team shouldn`t really be a disgrace, but the manner of their defeat after the money they have spent makes it a huge dissapointment.
Starting the league earlier, hmm not sure. United lost to a team who don`t start their league season until this weekend. Wouldn`t really make a difference IMHO.
The guys on Radio Scotland are fucking clueless though. Dark, dark days? FFS losing to the quality of teams that Scottish clubs lost to tonight has become the norm over the last decade. Chick Young & co are probably more upset that they will be losing out on more European junkits.

[HibeeJibee]

guacamole, on 26 August 2010 - 20:42, said:

Starting the season earlier would probably not have helped us, I'm pretty sure the Greek season hasn't started yet. As I said on another thread, only one of our three teams were humiliated tonight.

Of course. However over the last few seasons (Hibs this season/Aberdeen + Falkirk + Hearts last season), we've seen some clubs struggle v the sort of sides they should be capable of beating - or at least, not taking a hiding off. Often due to being behind in fitness + preparation.

An earlier start wouldn't make much difference, but it could help.

We're certainly starting later than most similar-sized non-Arctic nations, IIRC.

northernscum, on 26 August 2010 - 20:43, said:

Aye i've noticed, but it only seems to be going in one direction for Scotland.

Yes, down, taking us to the position we deserve to be in.

If you think our decline is bad... what about Hungary, say? Worse could come.

This post has been edited by HibeeJibee: 26 August 2010 - 20:48

[Musketeer Gripweed]

HibeeJibee, on 26 August 2010 - 20:45, said:

It's 2010. We're small, + aren't particularly good. Rest of the continent has caught up / is catching up.

Why though? Do kids not have Playstations in Denmark and Holland?

[CaleyStan]

HibeeJibee, on 26 August 2010 - 20:45, said:

You seriously think that Dundee Utd, 3rd placed club in Scotland... should have been expecting to put out AEK Athens, 3rd placed club in Greece?

Actually, of course you do (probably). Just another example of the delusion and nostalgia which blinds so many among our people.

Huge reality check needed.


It's 2010. We're small, + aren't particularly good. Rest of the continent has caught up / is catching up.

delusion + nostalgia = northernscum

[HibeeJibee]

Djamolidine Abdoujaparov, on 26 August 2010 - 20:48, said:

Why though? Do kids not have Playstations in Denmark and Holland?

What, and Playstations are the only factor? The Netherlands had 3x our population FFS. I suspect both don't have our social ills of bad eating + drinking, nor do players in their nations have the work-ethic we have.

Neither are their tactical + technical styles, and management style, as outdated as ours.

Of course those things could be changed but I'm a realist... they won't be...!! Best Henry McLeish could come up with was asking for half a billion £ of facilities, to build elite training centres. It won't happen; it it did, it wouldn't scratch player attitudes nor the nations health; + he didn't even mention our styles of play or management. He said facilities will 'solve it'. They won't, at all.

= Reality check. Again.


Dundee Utd did well tonight. Over the 2 legs Motherwell also did admirably (2nd in Denmark v 5th in Scotland, afterall).

= Reality check. Again.

[pollymac]

Desert Nomad, on 26 August 2010 - 20:47, said:

No disgrace to either United or Well, lost to superior opponents as expected. Celtic losing to a Dutch team shouldn`t really be a disgrace, but the manner of their defeat after the money they have spent makes it a huge dissapointment.
Starting the league earlier, hmm not sure. United lost to a team who don`t start their league season until this weekend. Wouldn`t really make a difference IMHO.
The guys on Radio Scotland are fucking clueless though. Dark, dark days? FFS losing to the quality of teams that Scottish clubs lost to tonight has become the norm over the last decade. Chick Young & co are probably more upset that they will be losing out on more European junkits.

Not too sure about that - many people seem to forget how truly shit Celtic were before they spent that money. I mean, 4-0 v St Mirren shit.

It's also worth noting that whilst they've spent a decent amount (£8m??) they've also lost guys like McManus, Boruc and McGeady as well as several others (Rasmussen, wtf?)

[vikingTON]

Desert Nomad, on 26 August 2010 - 20:47, said:

Celtic losing to a Dutch team shouldn`t really be a disgrace, but the manner of their defeat after the money they have spent makes it a huge dissapointment.

They lost to a Dutch mid-table side. Ajax, PSV, Twente, to a lesser extent AZ - aye, no disgrace at all, but Utrecht aren't in the same bracket.

[vikingTON]

HibeeJibee, on 26 August 2010 - 20:54, said:

The Netherlands had 3x our population FFS.

How many home-grown players were in the Celtic side tonight? How is that relevant?

Quote

I suspect both don't have our social ills of bad eating + drinking

Aye right. The Dutch don't like a good drink?!

This post has been edited by vikingTON: 26 August 2010 - 20:59

[Doctor Chist]

HibeeJibee, on 26 August 2010 - 20:40, said:

Celtic lost to (on paper) a weaker outfit.

I'm not so sure about that.

[Shawfield Stallion]

HibeeJibee, on 26 August 2010 - 20:41, said:

Also, this. We have to realise we're the drunkard, smoker and unhealthy eater of Europe, have 5M people... and utilise a style of football, tactical and technical, which is outdated.

We have been surpassed by many, many others.

We're a middling European football nation.

Spot on. Far too many Scottish football fans have completely the wrong attitude when it comes to tactics and technique and I've experienced that first hand, sort of. As a 13 year old I went on trial at Hearts for a fortnight, trained twice a week in Edinburgh and played a few youth team games - their motto which they emphasised to all of their youth teams was "if in doubt, get it out." We were encouraged to work hard and give it 100%, but that's about it.

Conversely, when I was in 6th year I went on one of those council funded school trips to train with the Barcelona youth teams for a week and the difference in emphasis is incredible. Their motto was something like "The football is made of leather from a cow. Cows don't belong in the sky"

Slightly dodgy logic, but the message was clear. We were taught coaching techniques which are lightyears ahead of anything we were exposed to before. Things like passing and moving, keeping calm on the ball, and concentrating on getting back into formation when you lose the ball rather than the hare 'em scare 'em manner in which we try to immediately win possession back over here. Strikers are taught to conserve their energy in front of goal by not chasing the ball all over the pitch, midfielders are told to form triangles when in possession and be patient when disposessed, and defenders are encouraged to pass the ball out of danger whenever possible rather than hoofing it up the park and starting from square one. We were told that winning wasn't important at our age and awards were given to those who showed the most improvement or the best array of passing, rather than the beanpole up front who scored the hat-trick

I appreciate the merits of putting in some good solid graft, but we really shouldn't be screaming to the players to get it up the park and thunderously applauding when a striker chases the ball all the way back to his own box. We're shite because we're a nation of fatties with a mentality that is about 30 years out of date. Reform really is the answer, but I'm realistic enough to realise that it's going to take a helluva long time to change the psyche of the Scottish football fan, if it's even possible

This post has been edited by Shawfield Stallion: 26 August 2010 - 21:03