[Svensen]

Law Stud, on 15 March 2010 - 15:22, said:

Today Scotland has Steven Fletcher as it's only player likely to win top European honours. That speaks volumes IMO.

Did he finally get that dream move to Real Madrid that the lazy hacks and retarted Hibs fans were always touting???

[craigkillie]

Davie Bhoy, on 15 March 2010 - 15:41, said:

Now yer just talking shit.

I said Rasmussen should have been shown a red and would have if the officials had seen it. I said I'd be surprised if he isn't up before the review panel. (The same review panel that ignored McCullochs deliberate elbow on an Aberdeen player earlier this season). That now looks to be the case. I also said that Clancy should also be up before them. I've no gripes in games like that because the decisions DID even themselves out. Like it did in the Hearts game earlier in the season against us.

However Wright did fly in to a bad tackle and got a yellow I think. At the elbow he was also not quite innocent...although not meriting an elbow it has to be said. now if you look at his part in the elbow it would have merited a yellow card which would have seen him sent off.

Take your head out the sand.

Clancy was the Killie player who got a yellow card.

Wright wasn't booked in the game, which was the reason for my post.

[Captain_Sensible]

One reason why there are less Scots with top English clubs winning European honours is because the top clubs in Europe now sign the best players from all around the world as opposed to just the best players in their own back yard.

However, I'm in agreement with LawStud on this - the evidence is staring you in the face. The quality in Scottish football is not what it used to be and has been going downhill for years.

[Davie Bhoy]

craigkillie, on 15 March 2010 - 15:47, said:

Clancy was the Killie player who got a yellow card.

Wright wasn't booked in the game, which was the reason for my post.

Fair enough with regards to Wright. I thought he was booked when he went through the back of one of our players with a shocking tackle that we got a free kick for. That he WASN'T booked is a mystery.

[MrDust]

flyingscot, on 15 March 2010 - 02:02, said:

Money is the root of it. Too expensive for 2hrs on a Sat afternoon really. No way do I want to pay £22 to see Hamilton-St Mirren, then £28 the next weekend.

The casual fan has gone for that result. Equally my Uncle tells me as a kid they'd go to see Queens Park, St. Mirren, Clyde, Thistle, or any other club playing a decent game at home despite who they supported. That's largely gone too.

Our location denys the casual fan, Brockville was perfect location for the casual fan which could add a good few hundred maybe more game depending. Many a time folk would be in the pub and go because it was walking distance, now its either take 30 mins to walk there or a bus there and back.....They now just stay in the pub......

Cost and other activities have took over too, if prices dropped I dont think the number increase would generate the loss in revenue, many clubs have attempted this and it hasnt really been repeated mainly to what I can guess that it doesnt pay to do so

As for future Scottish talent, there are more interests for kids nowadays, computers game consoles, portable gaming as well as other activities that come ahead of football. My youth days had an atari and later a ZX spectrum added with four tv channels, I was out playing football as long as I could.....this doesnt happen nowadays but we have more organised clubs doing football classes with coaches. I think the womens football skill and development has increased in todays practice whereas boys development has not..

No real easy answer.....Im affraid

[Law Stud]

MrDust, on 15 March 2010 - 16:35, said:

As for future Scottish talent, there are more interests for kids nowadays, computers game consoles, portable gaming as well as other activities that come ahead of football. My youth days had an atari and later a ZX spectrum added with four tv channels, I was out playing football as long as I could.....this doesnt happen nowadays but we have more organised clubs doing football classes with coaches. I think the womens football skill and development has increased in todays practice whereas boys development has not..

No real easy answer.....Im affraid

Kids did practice more, that's definitely true. I would race the bus home from school, get my football kit on and go practice on the football pitch down the bottom of the hill where I stayed and I'd be there till long after dark. But then back in those days we had no police checks and paedophiles ran boys football clubs - even at Celtic - and coaches hadn't been near a coaching course, never mind qualified for the different badges.

I think the SFA have focused, correctly, on organising the grassroots game. The recent introduction of the Charter Mark scheme means that clubs have to be run in a certain manner, they need to do standard risk and safety assessments, they need their finances in order in a club bank account, and their coaches have to be police checked and SFA qualified.

It's within the senior club structure where we fall down. We've got club scouts who work for a pint of beer and who select players at the age of 10 as though they are fully developed already. It's ridiculous that our professional clubs are signing players as young as 10 years old. They stop them from playing football in school, or for their clubs, and yet they won't select some of those boys for matches when they do come up. Then at the age of 11 or 12 they start releasing them again because they aren't fast enough or haven't grown enough without fully understanding that boys at that age develop physically at different stages.

Ofcourse it also doesn't help that the Scottish Parliament and Local Authorities have systematically cut the number of football pitches throughout the country and they've also failed to maintain and upgrade the ones we have. It's a marker of the pathetic state of our game that we've only got a handful of full sized indoor football pitches around a country with a climate like ours, and it's shocking that Sports Scotland are still insisting that they will only provide funding if the playing surface is 2G so that hockey - a sport hardly played in this country - can share facilities with football.

The SFA and this whole thing about the Largs Brigade is a complete red herring. If anything the SYFA and the SFA are the organisations who are actually trying to get their house in order. We have schools of excellence - like Broadhurst High in Motherwell - where Ian Ross runs the SFA Football element of the school and we have progression from there into Regional Development Squads. That isn't the problem area.....our clubs are!

[Patrick Bateman]

sconnybotland, on 15 March 2010 - 12:56, said:

How OF supporters derive any kind of achievement / euphoria with regard to their team winning the league or cup, or even the diddy cup next week is beyond me.

I have always thought this too, and have come to the conclusion that it gives their lives some sort of worth to be associated with a winning team.

[HibeeJibee]

Law Stud, on 15 March 2010 - 17:48, said:

Ofcourse it also doesn't help that the Scottish Parliament and Local Authorities have systematically cut the number of football pitches throughout the country and they've also failed to maintain and upgrade the ones we have. It's a marker of the pathetic state of our game that we've only got a handful of full sized indoor football pitches around a country with a climate like ours, and it's shocking that Sports Scotland are still insisting that they will only provide funding if the playing surface is 2G so that hockey - a sport hardly played in this country - can share facilities with football.

In the Borders there is currently not a single full-sized 3G pitch, IIRC. They wanted to put one on Tweedbank, when replacing the current aging / dangerous astroturf... they changed their minds at the last minute and went for a hockey-suitable surface. There were already 2 such pitches at least, and 3 more have just opened at the new high schools in Berwickshire. Another is planned for Peebles. You can't play rugby on them at all, and the football is lower quality than a '3G' surface. The hockey lobby was well organised. The football lobby (amateur + youth) was a shambles.

As for full-size indoor pitches - I'm aware of Toryglen and Aberdeen Sports Village... are there any others at all? Do Rangers or Celtic have them?

[Farrah Swango]

HibeeJibee, on 15 March 2010 - 18:04, said:

In the Borders there is currently not a single full-sized 3G pitch, IIRC. They wanted to put one on Tweedbank, when replacing the current aging / dangerous astroturf... they changed their minds at the last minute and went for a hockey-suitable surface. There were already 2 such pitches at least, and 3 more have just opened at the new high schools in Berwickshire. Another is planned for Peebles. You can't play rugby on them at all, and the football is lower quality than a '3G' surface. The hockey lobby was well organised. The football lobby (amateur + youth) was a shambles.

As for full-size indoor pitches - I'm aware of Toryglen and Aberdeen Sports Village... are there any others at all? Do Rangers or Celtic have them?

That pitch definitely is more dangerous than bobo balde. Did anything ever come of Gala Fairydean trying to get a 3g pitch. I thought I'd read that in the paper at some point last year.

[HibeeJibee]

Farrah Swango, on 15 March 2010 - 19:15, said:

That pitch definitely is more dangerous than bobo balde. Did anything ever come of Gala Fairydean trying to get a 3g pitch. I thought I'd read that in the paper at some point last year.

Still at a consultation stage: some local football clubs and 1 or 2 grants bodies got the funding to do a feasibility study. Not heard anything else.

[Davie Bhoy]

HibeeJibee, on 15 March 2010 - 18:04, said:

In the Borders there is currently not a single full-sized 3G pitch, IIRC. They wanted to put one on Tweedbank, when replacing the current aging / dangerous astroturf... they changed their minds at the last minute and went for a hockey-suitable surface. There were already 2 such pitches at least, and 3 more have just opened at the new high schools in Berwickshire. Another is planned for Peebles. You can't play rugby on them at all, and the football is lower quality than a '3G' surface. The hockey lobby was well organised. The football lobby (amateur + youth) was a shambles.

As for full-size indoor pitches - I'm aware of Toryglen and Aberdeen Sports Village... are there any others at all? Do Rangers or Celtic have them?

Not sure about the Shame but Celtic have a 2/3rds indoor pitch...or is it 3/4 size one. Either way we have an indoor facility that is fairly big but not full size.

[Farrah Swango]

I think Rangers also have an indoor pitch from memory. Don't think it's full size either though.

[latapythelegend]

A new 3g pitch is currently being built at Little Kerse. Good pitches also there.

[Law Stud]

HibeeJibee, on 15 March 2010 - 18:04, said:

In the Borders there is currently not a single full-sized 3G pitch, IIRC. They wanted to put one on Tweedbank, when replacing the current aging / dangerous astroturf... they changed their minds at the last minute and went for a hockey-suitable surface. There were already 2 such pitches at least, and 3 more have just opened at the new high schools in Berwickshire. Another is planned for Peebles. You can't play rugby on them at all, and the football is lower quality than a '3G' surface. The hockey lobby was well organised. The football lobby (amateur + youth) was a shambles.

As for full-size indoor pitches - I'm aware of Toryglen and Aberdeen Sports Village... are there any others at all? Do Rangers or Celtic have them?

There's going to be a new one at Ravenscraig - I don't know about round the rest of Scotland.

http://www.ravenscra...ts_facility.asp

This post has been edited by Law Stud: 15 March 2010 - 20:38

[Ned Nederlander]

Law Stud, on 15 March 2010 - 20:37, said:

There's going to be a new one at Ravenscraig - I don't know about round the rest of Scotland.

http://www.ravenscra...ts_facility.asp

Why don't you let 'Ogre' post for a bit Stuart ?

[flyingscot]

Law Stud, on 15 March 2010 - 20:37, said:

There's going to be a new one at Ravenscraig - I don't know about round the rest of Scotland.

http://www.ravenscra...ts_facility.asp

Yep the Regional Sports Centre will have one, I suspect they are likely to quarter/half it for smaller side games more often however. Strange to have Toryglen and Ravenscraig so close.

The cost of building full size indoor pitches is usually prohibitive for clubs.

[Law Stud]

flyingscot, on 15 March 2010 - 20:43, said:

Yep the Regional Sports Centre will have one, I suspect they are likely to quarter/half it for smaller side games more often however. Strange to have Toryglen and Ravenscraig so close.

The cost of building full size indoor pitches is usually prohibitive for clubs.

The Ravenscraig one was built to support the Glasgow Commonwealth Games bid and Lanarkshire's bid for the International Childrens Games. It's going to be used as a training centre. The sad thing is it's a bit of an opportunity missed as they should have made the running track full size rather than a 135m straight.

It's nearly finished though and I'm getting a tour of the building on Friday. Looking forward to it.

[Captain_Sensible]

Law Stud, on 15 March 2010 - 20:47, said:

The sad thing is it's a bit of an opportunity missed as they should have made the running track full size rather than a 135m straight.

[T_S_A_R]

flyingscot, on 15 March 2010 - 20:43, said:

Yep the Regional Sports Centre will have one, I suspect they are likely to quarter/half it for smaller side games more often however. Strange to have Toryglen and Ravenscraig so close.

not really, glasgow and lanarkshire produce the most players.

[Desert Nomad]

Dickson = clever wum
Captain Sensible = not so clever wum
Davie Bhoy = paranoid wreck
HibbeeJibbee = statistical wum
StandFree =

that`s this thread for ya folks!

[HibeeJibee]

Law Stud, on 15 March 2010 - 20:47, said:

The Ravenscraig one was built to support the Glasgow Commonwealth Games bid and Lanarkshire's bid for the International Childrens Games. It's going to be used as a training centre. The sad thing is it's a bit of an opportunity missed as they should have made the running track full size rather than a 135m straight.

It's nearly finished though and I'm getting a tour of the building on Friday. Looking forward to it.

You do appreciate that there are hardly any covered full-size athletics tracks on earth?

I'm hard pushed to think of any in Europe never mind UK. It's impressive enough, that the roof has a span sufficient for the pitch and 8 lanes of running track... I'm aware that the costs of the roof spans for Toryglen (pitch + about 10 rows of seats) was exponetially more than Aberdeen Sports Village (pitch only). They're hellish expensive things...

This post has been edited by HibeeJibee: 16 March 2010 - 00:14

[Law Stud]

HibeeJibee, on 16 March 2010 - 00:13, said:

You do appreciate that there are hardly any covered full-size athletics tracks on earth?

I'm hard pushed to think of any in Europe never mind UK. It's impressive enough, that the roof has a span sufficient for the pitch and 8 lanes of running track... I'm aware that the costs of the roof spans for Toryglen (pitch + about 10 rows of seats) was exponetially more than Aberdeen Sports Village (pitch only). They're hellish expensive things...

The initial plans were for a full sized running track, and a larger spectator area and IIRC it was all on an area covered by the current footprint. Somehow the plans went from a full sized track to incorporating badminton courts over a period of three months when the contractors bids were being considered. Don't get me wrong it will still be a fantastic venue, but it could have been one of the premier venues for International Athletics with a little bit more foresight.

[kiwififer]

I'll get a nosebleed posting up here but my tuppence worth.

It's a wee small country with limited money down here. It has quite high obesity rates with kids (the Pacific Island population has the highest in the world) and has the same distractions as home - playstation, champions league, booze etc.

Yet it continually punches well above it's weight in sports - rugby, league, cricket, rowing, netball etc...

What's the difference? Kids are out playing sports morning noon and night. Sports clubs, no matter what the sport, all have junior sides and they consider it an honour, not a risk to introduce a youngster into a first team. Kids enjoy playing the game, and aren't bombarded to win at all costs, they are taught skills and nothing more.

Sport is viewed as an essential part of life and is held in high regard. I have yet to see a park anywhere that has dog shite on it. In fact, when you play sports at school here, you play in your bare feet.

Government is also fully behind most sports at some level. No matter who gets in, left or right, sport is left alone and isn't kicked about (excuse the pun) as a political football.

While the weather has some bearing on it, the best team in the super14's from here has been the crusaders, based in Christchurch in the south island. Which in winter time has the same climate as Scotland, so it can't be that.

I would suggest investing in proper facilities would be a start, but changing a mindset of a nation is going to be the hard part.

[Ned Nederlander]

kiwififer, on 16 March 2010 - 05:35, said:

I'll get a nosebleed posting up here but my tuppence worth.

It's a wee small country with limited money down here. It has quite high obesity rates with kids (the Pacific Island population has the highest in the world) and has the same distractions as home - playstation, champions league, booze etc.

Yet it continually punches well above it's weight in sports - rugby, league, cricket, rowing, netball etc...

What's the difference? Kids are out playing sports morning noon and night. Sports clubs, no matter what the sport, all have junior sides and they consider it an honour, not a risk to introduce a youngster into a first team. Kids enjoy playing the game, and aren't bombarded to win at all costs, they are taught skills and nothing more.

Sport is viewed as an essential part of life and is held in high regard. I have yet to see a park anywhere that has dog shite on it. In fact, when you play sports at school here, you play in your bare feet.

Government is also fully behind most sports at some level. No matter who gets in, left or right, sport is left alone and isn't kicked about (excuse the pun) as a political football.

While the weather has some bearing on it, the best team in the super14's from here has been the crusaders, based in Christchurch in the south island. Which in winter time has the same climate as Scotland, so it can't be that.

I would suggest investing in proper facilities would be a start, but changing a mindset of a nation is going to be the hard part.

Interesting stuff.

I'll leave the dog shite subject to General Nonsense although I could rant rather splendidly about it - as for the being 'bombarded to win' I do think that's changed here fairly recently, Ned Jnr (7) plays at TFS on Saturday mornings and the onus is certainly on fun and I know that the coaches of the older kids who are involved in leagues send reports to the league admin following games that doesn't record the score.

The teachers strike always got the blame for my generations lack of sporting talent, I was never a great footballer but I was a stand out in two other sports that involved lunch-time and afterschool involvement that were both knocked on the head during the strike and never restarted again !

(I did go on to represent the Navy in one sport btw, they put equal focus on sport and getting pished )

This post has been edited by Ned Nederlander: 16 March 2010 - 05:59

[kiwififer]

Ned Nederlander, on 16 March 2010 - 05:57, said:

Interesting stuff.

My work has a social bowls team (I was involved with that, it was good laugh although the beer helped), a touch rugby side and I am the odd one out in the whole team as I don't go to a gym. One plays football every week, two of the island team upstairs play league and the partner of the OT plays badminton pretty seriously, as in competitions throughout the country (she plays as well, just not that seriously).

There's about 4 of us that play golf.

That's in my workplace alone. It's the mindset to be doing things/playing sport here, no matter your age or ability.