[robert mclean]

n
i dont know how the attendence records for clubs have been so im not going to comment. but as far as quality on the pitch is concerned i think society is to blame we live in a world of computers and games consoles , kids dont want to go out and play football they can stick fifa on and play the beautiful game just look at obesity levels in the uk and how they have increased dramatically . kids have feck all encouragement from schools and i wud make thids a priority , we live in a lazy culture at the moment too , ask a 15 year old kid if he wants to go out get burd, smoke marijuana and get pissed up , or train for 3 hours a day playing football not going out at the weekends and giving mcdonalds and co a miss and 99 out of 100 will take the first option . The only recognisable player on the world stage for us is fletcher and it will stay tht way for the foreseeable future , gone are the days when we had a fair amount of quality players in top leagues.

[craigkillie]

greenockraver, on 15 March 2010 - 12:28, said:

whats the difference between 1999 and 2010 then?

In terms of Killie?

We were going through a post Scottish cup win bounce and we were top of the league at Christmas that season. Our support at that time was significantly higher than our traditional support.

[greenockraver]

craigkillie, on 15 March 2010 - 12:31, said:

In terms of Killie?

We were going through a post Scottish cup win bounce and we were top of the league at Christmas that season. Our support at that time was significantly higher than our traditional support.

Fair enough, I suppose.

Though the likes of hearts , it didn't do much for them except make them lose their best players (with a bit of romanov to boot , granted.) and even gretna, who didnt win the final but got to it nevertheless! I think today in 2010, winning the scottish cup would definately not sort your season ticket woes the following season.

It's kind of depressing but... the spiral is evident

This post has been edited by greenockraver: 15 March 2010 - 12:39

[sconnybotland]

Ogre, on 14 March 2010 - 23:48, said:

I have been watching Scottish football now for 30 years and can honestly say that the quality on offer now is the worst I have seen in that time. I have a Season ticket for my local team, St.Mirren but will not be renewing this due to the extremely poor quality of football I have been watching for some years now at St.Mirren games and all other Scottish games which I watch either online or on the television.

In addition I have given up with the biased refereeing at SPL and SFA games involving the Old Firm. The decisions today at the Rangers V Dundee Utd game very disgraceful but are nothing new to our game when the Old Firm and Rangers in particular are concerned. Our game is therefore unfair.

I have also been told by a police official that they have been told to turn "a blind eye" to actions by OF fans at away games including sectarian singing which is disgusting. How many people do you know who support "provincial" clubs but do not go to OF games or do not take their kids to these games in their home stadiums ?

St.Mirren play Rangers next Sunday in the League Cup Final and I know of many St.Mirren fans who will not go because it is Rangers that we play and they either fear for their safety or that they will witness once again some dodgy decision by a biased referee.

Get yourself along to the Juniors mate, great entertainment and all just for a fiver.

It's bad enough that the OF control the market in Scotland but now it appears that they also control the officials, well this season it would appear to be Rangers turn!

How OF supporters derive any kind of achievement / euphoria with regard to their team winning the league or cup, or even the diddy cup next week is beyond me.

[Reynard]

flyingscot, on 15 March 2010 - 02:02, said:

Money is the root of it. Too expensive for 2hrs on a Sat afternoon really. No way do I want to pay £22 to see Hamilton-St Mirren, then £28 the next weekend.

The casual fan has gone for that result. Equally my Uncle tells me as a kid they'd go to see Queens Park, St. Mirren, Clyde, Thistle, or any other club playing a decent game at home despite who they supported. That's largely gone too.

Yep. My dad is officially a Rangers armchair fan. He hardly ever went to Ibrox though as a younger guy. But he did go and watch Thistle, Clyde, Queens Park, St.Mirren and whatever other outfit that was doing ok at the time. He just liked to go and see a game of football at the weekedn when he felt like it.

I wetnt through a spell of going to watch Ayr or Killie when St.Mirren were playing away from home. But now I don't bother. I've lost enthusiasm for the game just now. It might come back but I dinno. I've been to less games this season than at any time in my adult life. I don't watch live televised games either. I can barely muster any enthusiasm about this cup final coming up either. It all seems a bit shite just now.

I think part of that might be the fact we moved ground and became a bit more financially stable. I think I felt there was a "cause" beforehand? Maybe. Most of the reason is the sort of football we are being forced to watch. It's all about not losing goals, not losing games and very little about the positive side of the sport. The standard of player is generally quite poor across the board.

The atmosphere inside most stadiums is funereal. At least back i the day when the game was shite there was always a few dafties kicking around you could point and laugh at. If anyone even so much as lets out a silent fart now the stewards are on them like a ton of bricks.

It's probably just me and the stage in life I'm at. Fair enough. I can't see me going to many more games this season anyway after the final. Ive certainly watched far worse St.Mirren sides in recent times but the whole sport itself just seems crap now. I'm not even sure if I like football anymore. Maybe a spell away from it will recharge the enthusiasm. Fook knows. I know my dad won't look at football now either. So apart from the fact I'm a foot taller than him, I'm handsome and have a full head of hair it looks like we are quite alike.

[Galajambo]

Davie Bhoy, on 15 March 2010 - 01:18, said:

I'm with you on some of what you say. I've felt like chucking it this year on a number of occasions just due to the Refs doing us over left right and centre. I'm sure many of them are cheating us to help Rangers win the league. No beating about the bush here.

[sparky88]

Galajambo, on 15 March 2010 - 13:55, said:

I reckon if Rangers were compiling a 'dossier' their fans would come out with the same blinkered pish (bet you the same number of decisions have gone against Rangers as Celtic)

[Szamo's_Ammo]

People have been saying the same rubbish every single season since I remember taking an interest in football. It's funny when you hear people harking back to a few seasons ago when the fans were saying exactly the same about Scottish football at the time. Scottish football fans will never be happy.

[Davie Bhoy]

StandFree03, on 15 March 2010 - 02:31, said:

Except you have been brainwashed into actually believing that the Refs are out to get you.

So who has brainwashed me exactly?

Quote

To say that yuo were thinking about chucking it in because of it is utterly laughable. How do you think the rest of us feel? We have been getting raped by the OF for an eternity.

You've got to love mentality. A Celtic fan thinks they have been cheated by refs and we're told it's laughable and we're paranoid. Refs wouldn;t do such a thing. However if your a fan of a diddy club then being cheated is the case.

Get a grip!!!

[The Old Northerner]

Davie Bhoy, on 15 March 2010 - 14:56, said:

So who has brainwashed me exactly?



You've got to love mentality. A Celtic fan thinks they have been cheated by refs and we're told it's laughable and we're paranoid. Refs wouldn;t do such a thing. However if your a fan of a diddy club then being cheated is the case.

Get a grip!!!

You don't need to be of a particular mentality to believe that 'big teams tend to get the decisions'. It's a pretty common perception throughout the footballing world - including youth and non-league football. You do, however, have to be of a particular mentality to refuse to acknowledge the decisions that do go for you

[Law Stud]

robert mclean, on 15 March 2010 - 12:29, said:

n
i dont know how the attendence records for clubs have been so im not going to comment. but as far as quality on the pitch is concerned i think society is to blame we live in a world of computers and games consoles , kids dont want to go out and play football they can stick fifa on and play the beautiful game just look at obesity levels in the uk and how they have increased dramatically . kids have feck all encouragement from schools and i wud make thids a priority , we live in a lazy culture at the moment too , ask a 15 year old kid if he wants to go out get burd, smoke marijuana and get pissed up , or train for 3 hours a day playing football not going out at the weekends and giving mcdonalds and co a miss and 99 out of 100 will take the first option . The only recognisable player on the world stage for us is fletcher and it will stay tht way for the foreseeable future , gone are the days when we had a fair amount of quality players in top leagues.

I disagree completely with this. It's simply well wide of the mark.

I am heavily involved in grassroots football in Lanarkshire these days and the reality is that there are a record number of organised sides in the region playing in competitive and non competitive league set ups. Indeed it's to the extent where there are far too few grass and 3G pitches in the area.

There is, as there always was, a huge drop off in numbers as boys turn 15, and 16 but IMO that's more to do with work commitments than anything else. Our shift work culture means more evening jobs and weekend jobs and that forces kids out of the game.

[Captain_Sensible]

Davie Bhoy, on 15 March 2010 - 14:56, said:

You've got to love mentality. A Celtic fan thinks they have been cheated by refs and we're told it's laughable and we're paranoid. Refs wouldn;t do such a thing.

er, you ain't quite getting this Davie.

The reason the "diddy fans" tell you you are paranoid is because you complain about decisions going against you despite the fact that from the evidence we as "diddy fans" see, you get all the decisions going for you.

[Ya Bezzer!]

I can honest say the best football I've ever seen my team play wasn't in 10 or 20 or 30 years ago but 3 years ago.

5,000 were turning up for the matches.

Scottish football fans are just a bunch of moaning faced p***ks always harking back to some golden age that only exists in their imaginations.

[Davie Bhoy]

The Old Northerner, on 15 March 2010 - 15:00, said:

You don't need to be of a particular mentality to believe that 'big teams tend to get the decisions'. It's a pretty common perception throughout the footballing world - including youth and non-league football. You do, however, have to be of a particular mentality to refuse to acknowledge the decisions that do go for you

Much in the same way you'd have to acknowledge that the big teams with their better players and being more likely to be on the offensive in games are more likely to be fouled and in turn recieve more fouls.

Is it so hard to imagine in a country when we have outed Jim Farry for cheating Celtic and he was head of the SFA, We have outed a ref who was pissed up at an Orange Parade not long before he was due to take charge of an OF cup final, and we have outed a man who is very intelligent in Donald Findlay for being a bigot too that maybe there are refs out there who share this same hatred for Celtic?

Unlike other countries were there are several big clubs and the demographics are not an issue, were religious and political beliefs are not an issue, they are here...and in that aspect we're in the minority. Why is it so hard to accept that there are people out there who would be inclined to do Celtic over?

[Colin M]

Davie Bhoy, on 15 March 2010 - 15:14, said:

Why is it so hard to accept that there are people out there who would be inclined to do Celtic over?

The Old Northerner, on 15 March 2010 - 13:17, said:

McCann was talking out of his arse, as well then

Rangers 52
Celtic 42
Best of the rest 4

If the 'Establishment' were that dead set against Celtic, why would have they have been invited into the league? Why did 'cheats' not stop Celtic from being easily the most successful club for the first 30 years of the league? Why did 'cheats' not stop Celtic from winning 9IAR (especially after a particularly lean time after the war, which the 'cheats' must have enjoyed)? Why did the 'cheats' not stop Strachan from pissing all over Rangers?

[Law Stud]

Szamo's_Ammo, on 15 March 2010 - 14:18, said:

People have been saying the same rubbish every single season since I remember taking an interest in football. It's funny when you hear people harking back to a few seasons ago when the fans were saying exactly the same about Scottish football at the time. Scottish football fans will never be happy.

In general terms though they are right no matter what era you want to hark back to.

Look back at the Scotland team circa 1982-6. Dalglish, Souness and Hansen, Robertson, Gemmill, Burns, and Gray all European Cup Winners with Liverpool and Forest. John Wark a UEFA Cup Winner. Leighton, McLeish, Weir and Miller European Cup Winners Cup Winners. At Dundee United you had European Cup semi finalists in Narey, Sturrock, Hegarty. Archibald is a Barcelona star and you've got players like Mo Johnston, Ally McCoist, Frank McAvennie, John Collins, Andy Gray and Grahame Sharpe all waiting on their chances to break through. Even Stevie Clarke, a superb full back who won European honours at Chelsea couldn't get a game.

Come forward to the 90's and the quality is generally worse. Fans are being charged more money and the SPL has the likes of Paul Gascoigne, Henrik Larsson, Brian Laudrup, Jorge Albertz, It's not bad, it's just not as good as it was.

Now look around the teams - who are the skillful talented players enthusing the supporter? Aidan McGeady? Stephen Davis? The evidence is there right infront of you. Fans are paying more money to watch fewer of the games top players. It's nothing to do with not seeing teams from around the world on telly - it's to do with us not having players capable of making it to the top levels of the game. Today Scotland has Steven Fletcher as it's only player likely to win top European honours. That speaks volumes IMO.

[Colin M]

Law Stud, on 15 March 2010 - 15:22, said:

Today Scotland has Steven Fletcher as it's only player likely to win top European honours.

Burnley are a shoe-in for Champions League glory.

[craigkillie]

Davie Bhoy, on 15 March 2010 - 15:14, said:

Much in the same way you'd have to acknowledge that the big teams with their better players and being more likely to be on the offensive in games are more likely to be fouled and in turn recieve more fouls.

Is it so hard to imagine in a country when we have outed Jim Farry for cheating Celtic and he was head of the SFA, We have outed a ref who was pissed up at an Orange Parade not long before he was due to take charge of an OF cup final, and we have outed a man who is very intelligent in Donald Findlay for being a bigot too that maybe there are refs out there who share this same hatred for Celtic?

Unlike other countries were there are several big clubs and the demographics are not an issue, were religious and political beliefs are not an issue, they are here...and in that aspect we're in the minority. Why is it so hard to accept that there are people out there who would be inclined to do Celtic over?

Your opinion would be more relevant if you hadn't last night claimed that Frazer Wright should have been sent off for 1 hypothetical yellow card.

You are completely unable to be subjective when Celtic are involved, and as a result you indulge in world class whataboutery to avoid decisions Celtic get in their benefit - even if that involves you being factually inaccurate.

This post has been edited by craigkillie: 15 March 2010 - 15:27

[Law Stud]

Ya Bezzer!, on 15 March 2010 - 15:10, said:

I can honest say the best football I've ever seen my team play wasn't in 10 or 20 or 30 years ago but 3 years ago.

5,000 were turning up for the matches.

Scottish football fans are just a bunch of moaning faced p***ks always harking back to some golden age that only exists in their imaginations.

Hmm. I can't agree with you.

Mark McGhee may have put a more attack minded Motherwell side on the pitch but I can't see how you would be more enthused by it than you would have been say in 1991, or even circa 2002 when James McFadden, Steven Pearson etc emerged onto their first team scene.

[The Old Northerner]

Davie Bhoy, on 15 March 2010 - 15:14, said:

Much in the same way you'd have to acknowledge that the big teams with their better players and being more likely to be on the offensive in games are more likely to be fouled and in turn recieve more fouls.

I have absolutely no problem in acknowledging that - more attacking means more decisions means more contentious decisions. However, the game isn't just about one side attacking though. I'd expect decisions to tend to go the way of 'big clubs' in a defensive role as well - if a 'diddy club' is only going to have 2 or 3 chances in a game then it's a bit bloody rough if the referee falls foul of big team syndrome

Quote

Why is it so hard to accept that there are people out there who would be inclined to do Celtic over?

We also then have to accept that they have made a utterly piss-poor job of it. Agreed?

This post has been edited by The Old Northerner: 15 March 2010 - 15:33

[Law Stud]

Colin M, on 15 March 2010 - 15:26, said:

Burnley are a shoe-in for Champions League glory.

Yes....well Darren Fletcher might not get in the starting line up for Manchester United in a final....

[Davie Bhoy]

Captain_Sensible, on 15 March 2010 - 15:08, said:

er, you ain't quite getting this Davie.

The reason the "diddy fans" tell you you are paranoid is because you complain about decisions going against you despite the fact that from the evidence we as "diddy fans" see, you get all the decisions going for you.

LOL...f**k off you.

[MarreZ]

Law Stud, on 15 March 2010 - 15:28, said:

Hmm. I can't agree with you.

Mark McGhee may have put a more attack minded Motherwell side on the pitch but I can't see how you would be more enthused by it than you would have been say in 1991, or even circa 2002 when James McFadden, Steven Pearson etc emerged onto their first team scene.

Its the guys opinion, you cant agree or disagree with someones opinion, you are not a Motherwell fan and havent seen the teams playing week in and week out to comment.

[HibeeJibee]

Szamo's_Ammo, on 15 March 2010 - 14:18, said:

People have been saying the same rubbish every single season since I remember taking an interest in football. It's funny when you hear people harking back to a few seasons ago when the fans were saying exactly the same about Scottish football at the time. Scottish football fans will never be happy.

Ya Bezzer!, on 15 March 2010 - 15:10, said:

Scottish football fans are just a bunch of moaning faced p***ks always harking back to some golden age that only exists in their imaginations.

Of course, but then again it's a reflection of Scottish culture / society in general. The media has been calling our football cr*p for about 50 years!!

[Davie Bhoy]

craigkillie, on 15 March 2010 - 15:27, said:

Your opinion would be more relevant if you hadn't last night claimed that Frazer Wright should have been sent off for 1 hypothetical yellow card.

You are completely unable to be subjective when Celtic are involved, and as a result you indulge in world class whataboutery to avoid decisions Celtic get in their benefit - even if that involves you being factually inaccurate.

Now yer just talking shit.

I said Rasmussen should have been shown a red and would have if the officials had seen it. I said I'd be surprised if he isn't up before the review panel. (The same review panel that ignored McCullochs deliberate elbow on an Aberdeen player earlier this season). That now looks to be the case. I also said that Clancy should also be up before them. I've no gripes in games like that because the decisions DID even themselves out. Like it did in the Hearts game earlier in the season against us.

However Wright did fly in to a bad tackle and got a yellow I think. At the elbow he was also not quite innocent...although not meriting an elbow it has to be said. now if you look at his part in the elbow it would have merited a yellow card which would have seen him sent off.

Take your head out the sand.