[Ogre]

I have been watching Scottish football now for 30 years and can honestly say that the quality on offer now is the worst I have seen in that time. I have a Season ticket for my local team, St.Mirren but will not be renewing this due to the extremely poor quality of football I have been watching for some years now at St.Mirren games and all other Scottish games which I watch either online or on the television.

In addition I have given up with the biased refereeing at SPL and SFA games involving the Old Firm. The decisions today at the Rangers V Dundee Utd game very disgraceful but are nothing new to our game when the Old Firm and Rangers in particular are concerned. Our game is therefore unfair.

I have also been told by a police official that they have been told to turn "a blind eye" to actions by OF fans at away games including sectarian singing which is disgusting. How many people do you know who support "provincial" clubs but do not go to OF games or do not take their kids to these games in their home stadiums ?

St.Mirren play Rangers next Sunday in the League Cup Final and I know of many St.Mirren fans who will not go because it is Rangers that we play and they either fear for their safety or that they will witness once again some dodgy decision by a biased referee.

[Ogre]

perthshirebell, on 14 March 2010 - 23:50, said:

Okay goodbye.

Rest assured your team will be affected in a negative manner by your non-renewal

Not just my team but every club and I am not the only one. Look at attendances........

[craigkillie]

Ogre, on 14 March 2010 - 23:57, said:

Not just my team but every club and I am not the only one. Look at attendances........

What about attendances?

[Ogre]

craigkillie, on 15 March 2010 - 00:21, said:

What about attendances?

Attendances are going down.......I was at the Killie v St.Mirren game 2 weeks ago and to be quite honest the attendance was pathetic. Kilmarnock have a fantastic stadium but there was about 4,500 people at the game.

Why are attandances so poor ??? Quite simply because the quality of football is very poor.

[StandFree03]

Hi Stuart. Having a boring nightshift? Mine has been not too bad this week.

[Davie Bhoy]

Ogre, on 15 March 2010 - 00:38, said:

Attendances are going down.......I was at the Killie v St.Mirren game 2 weeks ago and to be quite honest the attendance was pathetic. Kilmarnock have a fantastic stadium but there was about 4,500 people at the game.

Why are attandances so poor ??? Quite simply because the quality of football is very poor.

I'm with you on some of what you say. I've felt like chucking it this year on a number of occasions just due to the Refs doing us over left right and centre. I'm sure many of them are cheating us to help Rangers win the league. No beating about the bush here.

However how many St Mirren fans were at the game yesterday...a short journey through to Hamilton? Now all those exuses about poor quality etc are all well and good but they'll all be out in force next week for the final and it's those fuckers that are to blame for the poor quality. If they turned up every home game then the clubs would have more money to buy better players or invest heavier into the youth developement. The atmosphere would be better at games too and this would transmit on to the pitch.

That isn't just aimed at St Mirren but every club is guilty of it. Where were all the Rangers fans today? Celtic fans have also disappeared this season and phone up these phone-ins to talk about how poor we're playing and then go on to say they have a season ticket but don't go any more....well how the hell do they know how badly we played then cos at home we're not shown live apart from the obvious games.

I'd love to give the glory hunting fan a boot up the arse

[StandFree03]

Davie Bhoy, on 15 March 2010 - 01:18, said:

I'm with you on some of what you say. I've felt like chucking it this year on a number of occasions just due to the Refs doing us over left right and centre. I'm sure many of them are cheating us to help Rangers win the league. No beating about the bush here.

Get a grip.

[craigkillie]

Ogre, on 15 March 2010 - 00:38, said:

Attendances are going down.......I was at the Killie v St.Mirren game 2 weeks ago and to be quite honest the attendance was pathetic. Kilmarnock have a fantastic stadium but there was about 4,500 people at the game.

Why are attandances so poor ??? Quite simply because the quality of football is very poor.

Except that stats have been posted on here showing that the attendances at the moment are better than those in 1966/67, when it certainly couldn't be claimed that the quality of football was poor.

[craigkillie]

Davie Bhoy, on 15 March 2010 - 01:18, said:

I'm with you on some of what you say. I've felt like chucking it this year on a number of occasions just due to the Refs doing us over left right and centre. I'm sure many of them are cheating us to help Rangers win the league. No beating about the bush here.

Grow up.

Mowbray has done more to help Rangers win the league than the referees have.

[Davie Bhoy]

craigkillie, on 15 March 2010 - 01:29, said:

Except that stats have been posted on here showing that the attendances at the moment are better than those in 1966/67, when it certainly couldn't be claimed that the quality of football was poor.

Only the stats for attendances back then aint exactly worth a f**k. As I said the official attendance at Celtic Park when Celtic clinched the league in our Centenary season was given as the stadium capacity....despite the stadium being too full up and the fans having to sit around the track to avoid crushing.

We all know that many people were unaccounted for back then.

[Davie Bhoy]

craigkillie, on 15 March 2010 - 01:30, said:

Grow up.

Mowbray has done more to help Rangers win the league than the referees have.

Disagree with you but hey....it's all about opinions.

[flyingscot]

Davie Bhoy, on 15 March 2010 - 01:18, said:

However how many St Mirren fans were at the game yesterday...a short journey through to Hamilton? Now all those exuses about poor quality etc are all well and good but they'll all be out in force next week for the final and it's those fuckers that are to blame for the poor quality. If they turned up every home game then the clubs would have more money to buy better players or invest heavier into the youth developement. The atmosphere would be better at games too and this would transmit on to the pitch.

Money is the root of it. Too expensive for 2hrs on a Sat afternoon really. No way do I want to pay £22 to see Hamilton-St Mirren, then £28 the next weekend.

The casual fan has gone for that result. Equally my Uncle tells me as a kid they'd go to see Queens Park, St. Mirren, Clyde, Thistle, or any other club playing a decent game at home despite who they supported. That's largely gone too.

[banana]

Davie Bhoy, on 15 March 2010 - 01:18, said:

However how many St Mirren fans were at the game yesterday...a short journey through to Hamilton?

Erm, most Paisley football fans would have been in the away end at Kilmarnock or the home end at Ibrox.

If you truly wanted to kick all the glory-hunting supporters up the arse, then you'd have to deal with lower attendances at Parkhead (and Ibrox) due to being without the masses of glory-hunting fucktards from all over Scotland and Ireland making weekly their weekly pilgimages rather than supporting their home team, meaning less money for your coffers, meaning even worse quality players than you already have. I'm all up for as level a playing field as possible. Sounds good?

This post has been edited by banana: 15 March 2010 - 02:27

[StandFree03]

Davie Bhoy, on 15 March 2010 - 01:49, said:

Disagree with you but hey....it's all about opinions.

Except you have been brainwashed into actually believing that the Refs are out to get you. To say that yuo were thinking about chucking it in because of it is utterly laughable. How do you think the rest of us feel? We have been getting raped by the OF for an eternity.

[Law Stud]

i went down the same route as Ogre something like 9 or 10 years ago. I got bored of the game, hated the people ruining running the clubs, and saw a quickly deteriorating standard. It's not getting better. The SPL was supposed to save Scottish Football but I think it's clear from those who make vocal their opinions it's done far more to distroy the game as we know it.

The money that comes into Scottish Football has been wasted by inept managers looking for short term results and fixes. They do that to appease their board of directors who are desperate to maintain their existing league status to just simply balance the books - and they do it to appease fans who don't even know what they want these days with success without style not being enough for fans of the likes of Celtic, St Mirren and Hamilton Accies.

We have chairmen in the game who don't think youth development is worth spending money on. We have scouts at clubs who believe the main criteria for a good player is one that is 6' tall at the age of 10. And we have people at every level of Scottish Football who hear what the SFA and SYFA are telling them and then pull in opposite directions. At the same time we've got politicians who talk about how important sport is in curing our obesity epidemic whilst refusing to listen to local needs for sports facilities (the recent case in point where NLC is building a fantastic new primary school and laying a 2G surface so hockey can be played on it - despite the fact that no hockey is played at primary school level anywhere in the local area - and despite the fact that hockey pitches are lined on three other pitches in the area, but are so underused that the hockey goals have been taken away and replaced by football ones.)

Worse still the only solution that appears to be available to youth clubs faced with a higher demand for organised grass roots football than at any point in Scottish Football history to fix their facilities crisis, is for the clubs themseleves to run up debts of £300,000 - £1m in the hope of owning their own football pitch.

I watch grassroots football and the standard can be pretty good but we'll do as we have done over the last 20 years and we'll completely f**k it up if we leave it to the same people. The likes of Sports Scotland are worse than useless, our SNP government is hopeless, our clubs are hapless and the waste within the game is careless.

[Ned Nederlander]

Ogre, on 14 March 2010 - 23:48, said:

I have been watching Scottish football now for 30 years and can honestly say that the quality on offer now is the worst I have seen in that time.

he shoots ...

Law Stud, on 15 March 2010 - 02:33, said:

i went down the same route as Ogre something like 9 or 10 years ago.

he scores !

[sparky88]

Ogre, on 14 March 2010 - 23:57, said:

Not just my team but every club and I am not the only one. Look at attendances........

Ah, you've fallen into the trap there. You see empty spaces at stadiums and think 'Oh there must be a drop in attendences' This isnt the case. The problem is, in fact, that stadiums are far too big. Lets take Rugby Park for example. Killie have never sold it out, and I dont think they have ever even got close. You can fit half the population of Kilmarnock in Rugby Park. Colchester United, for example, has a 10,000 seater stadium but the town of Colchester has a population of over 100,000.

To show it isnt the product thats on show that is putting off people attending games - Elton John couldnt even get anywhere near to selling out Rugby Park when he played a few years ago. Its the size of the stadiums

The reason why stadiums are too big is partly clubs overextending themselves, partly the SPLs idiotic rules on minimum stadium capacity.

I presume its these sorts of assumptions you are basing it on cos you definately arent basing it on facts (see SPL expansion thread) More people in Scotland attend SPL games as a percentage of the population than anywhere in Europe.

This post has been edited by sparky88: 15 March 2010 - 08:39

[greenockraver]

Got to agree with the OP to be honest.
I appreciate what Sparky is saying and he definately makes a good point however, I dont think anyone can argue with the fact that the quality of our top flight is probably the worst it could be if you take into account the number of full time teams, wages paid and even the attendances and how much each punter is charged to get in, whether it be NDP, Easter Road or Parkhead. ScottisH football maybe isn't great and maybe nor it should be in these times when every player which has any sort of promise ships off to England, but surely for the TV deal (yes I know it isnt EPL standards, but still good for the sort of product we have), a 2nd tier of almost all full-time teams and defnately the money that is spent at the turnstyles (£28 is disgraceful for a st mirren game, no disrespect intended.), you would think we could maybe build teams who can not only give a decent account of themselves in the league but maybe beat the odd liechensteinian or icelandic mob in Europe to get the old co-efficient up. I don't like the excuse that we are cash strapped. It cant be the problem. My opinion is that the Cartel nature of the SPL and the reluctance to change is probably to blame for the current state. Also (and as a celtic fan, it pains me to say this, but the truth is the truth...) the fact that the OF steal any player the EPL dont manage to get from the lower teams doesn't help much.

Bottom line is that football is MASSIVE in scotland. But a blind man can see that the extensive interest of the public is a far cry from the inept product that seems to have established it'self in recent years.

[vlad is the man]

Ogre, on 15 March 2010 - 00:38, said:

Attendances are going down.......I was at the Killie v St.Mirren game 2 weeks ago and to be quite honest the attendance was pathetic. Kilmarnock have a fantastic stadium but there was about 4,500 people at the game.

Why are attandances so poor ??? Quite simply because the quality of football is very poor.

Captain_Sensible take it away.

Davie Bhoy, on 15 March 2010 - 01:18, said:

I'm with you on some of what you say. I've felt like chucking it this year on a number of occasions just due to the Refs doing us over left right and centre. I'm sure many of them are cheating us to help Rangers win the league. No beating about the bush here.

Oh bloody hell.

[TheScarf]

It doesn't help when players playing in the SPL can't control or pass a ball. These guys all being coached by the Largs Mafia. Did anyone see the Scotland - Azerbaijan u-21 game the other week? The ability of the 17 year old Azerbaijani's was light years ahead of their Scottish counterparts - most of who are regulars in the SPL.

John Collins may be a bit of a buffoon, but his idea of a School of Excellence(like Clairefontaine in France) is the way forward.

[T_S_A_R]

does anyone actually believe that the average scottish footballer has gotten worse? i definiteley don't believe that, i think this perception is down to 3 things.

1. tv coverage. the fact that we can watch pretty much every top footballer regularly means we know exactly what we're getting at home. until the past 20 years a live game featuring a foriegn game was rare and the current coverage of la liga, serie a, copa america and the budesliga didn't exist. every club in scotland seems to have had players that were held in high regard, but it's likely these were the only players teams ever saw. if the only football i ever saw was motherwell games i'd think jim o'brien was the greatest entertainer in world football. obviously this isn't true.

2. improved defending and fitness. trying to watch back games from the 60s and the 70s is torture. you watch jimmy johnstone highlights for example and players seem to fall over or dive in every time he gets near them with the ball. fire 1967 johnstone up against a modern fullback and he'd just stand two yards off and use his pace to stop him getting anywhere. football has changed people say they want to see skill but no one will accept that their players aren't fit and working hard whenever they don't have the ball. players run 10k in CL matches these days, how far were they running 30 or 40 years ago.

3. talent drain. there's 30 or 40 scots playing in the championship or league one that would improve the league up here, if they all came back up the road we'd have a much stronger league from top to bottom.

edit - obviously there are some things wrong with the league but it's more to do with gus mcpherson and billy reid shamelessly wanting to play negative football and mad vlad and willie miller running hearts and aberdeen into the ground. hibs, motherwell, dundee united and st johnstone all seem to be we'll run and entertaining their fans this season.

This post has been edited by T_S_A_R: 15 March 2010 - 11:50

[Colin M]

T_S_A_R, on 15 March 2010 - 11:48, said:

does anyone actually believe that the average scottish footballer has gotten worse? i definiteley don't believe that, i think this perception is down to 3 things.

I think that relative to other countries the average scottish footballer is worse then he was say, 25 years ago. There's not much can/could have been done about that though.

[craigkillie]

sparky88, on 15 March 2010 - 08:37, said:

Ah, you've fallen into the trap there. You see empty spaces at stadiums and think 'Oh there must be a drop in attendences' This isnt the case. The problem is, in fact, that stadiums are far too big. Lets take Rugby Park for example. Killie have never sold it out, and I dont think they have ever even got close.

Killie had over 15,000 on a few occasions in the late 90s, with the highest being virtually a sell out.

We even had a 15,000+ attendance for a game against St Johnstone in 1999.

[sconesjfc]

Ogre, on 14 March 2010 - 23:48, said:

I have been watching Scottish football now for 30 years and can honestly say that the quality on offer now is the worst I have seen in that time. I have a Season ticket for my local team, St.Mirren but will not be renewing this due to the extremely poor quality of football I have been watching for some years now at St.Mirren games and all other Scottish games which I watch either online or on the television.

In addition I have given up with the biased refereeing at SPL and SFA games involving the Old Firm. The decisions today at the Rangers V Dundee Utd game very disgraceful but are nothing new to our game when the Old Firm and Rangers in particular are concerned. Our game is therefore unfair.

I have also been told by a police official that they have been told to turn "a blind eye" to actions by OF fans at away games including sectarian singing which is disgusting. How many people do you know who support "provincial" clubs but do not go to OF games or do not take their kids to these games in their home stadiums ?

St.Mirren play Rangers next Sunday in the League Cup Final and I know of many St.Mirren fans who will not go because it is Rangers that we play and they either fear for their safety or that they will witness once again some dodgy decision by a biased referee.

Man Up

[greenockraver]

whats the difference between 1999 and 2010 then?