[btb]

Captain_Sensible, on 12 March 2010 - 11:58, said:

I'll try and come up with analysis of more seasons later today.

It's all about context - innit?

86/87 the season we won the Scottish Cup our best season in 50 years or was it....................

.......................if you're focusing on the league we finished seventh. Now from 79/80 until 84/85 we finished fifth or better in the league whereas from 85/86 we finished seventh and (in general) progressively worse until we were relegated in 91/92. When you're looking at league attendances in 86/87 you've got to accept we had already lost a lot of the real quality from our side Stark & McAvennie, favourites like Richardson and that sadly the Cup win was a blip in a general decline in the late '80's. We started the season with an unpopular manager who had alienated a section of the fans (plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose) and our support at rock bottom and afterwards failed to capitalize on our cup win.

Let's hope next week is something we can build on.

[Trevor the tractor]

Captain_Sensible, on 11 March 2010 - 10:16, said:

This thread is ridiculous.

Hamilton are actually enjoying very good gates just now.

Back in 2000/01 Accies average hom league gate was just 506. Clubs such as Stenhousemuir, Cowdenbeath, Peterhead & Elgin City had higher average gates.

And its not as if that sort of average was new. Back in 1969/70 Accies average home league gate was a paltry 514 - the 4th lowest in Scotland with only Stenhousemuir, Brechin & Albion Rovers lower! Indeed from 1967/68 onwards Accies had sub 1,000 average home league gates for 5 consecutive season.

Even back in the 1950s attendance boom in Scotland Accies were still getting relatively poor gates. Even at the height of attendances in Scotland in the early 50s they were still getting lower crowds than the likes of Queens Park (who by that time were at the wrong end of the Second Division) and Cowdenbeath.

The fact is that Accies have spent the vast majority of their post WW2 history in the lower leagues. They have never commanded large attendances - they have never been a big club. They are not the same as clubs like Motherwell or even Airdrie. Coatbridge has a huge population in relative terms yet Albion Rovers are a tiny club. Hamilton Accies are not quite at that level but they aren't anywhere the near the same stature of club as Motherwell and never have been. The years they spent away from Hamilton will also have had a disasterous effect on ther support.

Looking at the season Accies won the First Division half their home attendances were below the 2,000 mark. Their crucial second last home game of the season against St. Johnstone attracted a crowd of only 1,825. So what are people expecting them to get in the SPL?

Accies got a boost in gates last season due to the novelty factor of being in the SPL and now they've lowered a bit. You would expect that.

As for the assertion that people are staying away because of Billy Reid's "anti-football", what nonsense! Accies gates may be low in comparison to the rest of the SPL but in comparison to their own history a crowd of 2,000 is actually very good and way above what they used to get. Billy Reid's "anti-football" has brought Accies one of the most successful era's in their history and their current gates are amongst the highest in their history!

St Mirren fans usually talk a load of shite when it comes to Accies but on this occasion i've got to say thank you for an honest and sensible post. You are 100% correct, Are you really a St Mirren fan ?

[Shotts56]

Haw Captain, stop talking sense. You'll be giving St Mirren fans a good name. That's just not what we expect from the average Saints fan on P&B.

Accies fans know we are a small club. We know we are punching above our weight. We know that our present crowds will probably never increase and are never big enough to sustain a top league club for a prolonged period of time. We know we will be relegated sometime in the next few years. But we are certainly enjoying the hell out of being in the SPL whilst we are there.

Pity so many others seem to resent us because the thousands of OF firms in Hamilton didn't suddenly become Accies fans when we got promoted.

[Todd_is_God]

Shotts56, on 13 March 2010 - 00:02, said:

But we are certainly enjoying the hell out of being in the SPL whilst we are there.

Hmm. Is 5 wins, and just 19 goals, from 27 games really enjoying ourselves?

Now i know we have to try and slowly build on the previous season each time, but at this point last season we'd won 10 games from 27.

Happy to be in the spl? Yes, obviously, but that doesn't mean we are enjoying it.

[Captain_Sensible]

btb, on 12 March 2010 - 21:55, said:

It's all about context - innit?

86/87 the season we won the Scottish Cup our best season in 50 years or was it....................

.......................if you're focusing on the league we finished seventh. Now from 79/80 until 84/85 we finished fifth or better in the league whereas from 85/86 we finished seventh and (in general) progressively worse until we were relegated in 91/92. When you're looking at league attendances in 86/87 you've got to accept we had already lost a lot of the real quality from our side Stark & McAvennie, favourites like Richardson and that sadly the Cup win was a blip in a general decline in the late '80's. We started the season with an unpopular manager who had alienated a section of the fans (plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose) and our support at rock bottom and afterwards failed to capitalize on our cup win.

Let's hope next week is something we can build on.

The main point though is that we were FAR more successful in 86/87 than we are now and had far better players on show than we do now - yet attendances are better now that they were then.

However, I've taken your suggestion on board and completed an anaylsis of season 1980/81. That season we finished 4th in the league, just missing out on 3rd spot on goal difference. Our points won were actually 2 better than the previous season when we finished 3rd and so 80/81 could arguably be considered the best or at least 2nd best league campaign ever in the entire history of St. Mirren FC.

Players on show included Frank McDougall, Doug Somner, Peter Weir, Lex Richardson, Jimmy Bone, Billy Abercromby, Jack Copland, Billy Thomson et al. Top notch.

Now to the attendances.

St. Mirren's average home league attendance that season was 7,859. Excluding the visits from the Old Firm, the average was 6,954. Now attendances that season were good in the first half and peaked when 11,100 turned for the visit of Aberdeen on 3 Jan to see "Bone on his own" score goal of the season.

By the end of the season however the following attendances were turning up:

v Hearts (home) 3,400
v Kilmarnock (home) 4,200
v Partick (home) 4,445
v Hearts (away) 2,500
v Morton (home 4,345

Now these aren't a million miles away from we are getting now.

In season 82/83 the team had quality like Frank McAvennie in the side joining Frank McDougall & Ian Scanlon in a brilliant forward line. Billy Stark & Lex Richardson were still in midfield, Steve Clarke had arrived in defence and guys like Somner, Copland, Fitzpatrick & Abercromby were in the side.

The average home league attendance was 5,846. Ecxluding the Old Firm visits and that drops to 4,909 - not a million miles away from what we get today.

Season 83/84 saw the forward line of McAvennie, McDougall & Scanlon continue. We had one particular run of home games where we beat Hibs 2-1, Rangers 3-0, Celtic 4-2 (after being 2-0 down) and reigning champions Dundee United 4-0.

Our average home league attendance that season was 4,900 which drops to 4,062 when you exclude the visits from the Old Firm.

Here were some of the attendances that season:

v Motherwell (home) 3,610 - opening home game of season
v Dundee (home) 2,880 - second home game of season
v Hibernian (away) 4,762 - 4th game of season - this is the level Hibs were at back then!
v St. Johnstone (away) 2,487
v Hibernian (home) 3,789
v Dundee United (home) 4,186 - this was the game straight after beating Rangers 3-0 & Celtic 4-2
v St. Johnstone (home) 3,399 - first home game after 4 big results mentioned above
v Motherwell (home) 3,912
v Hibernian (away) 4,400
v St. Johnstone (home) 2,356 - die hards in the pub?
v Hibernian (home) 2,000 - even more die hards in the pub?
v Hearts (away) 6,500
v St. Johnstone (away) 1,691
v Motherwell (away) 1,856

So despite having one of the greatest forward lines in the history of the club and a run of 4 home victories which possibly rankl as the greatest run of home performances in the club's entire history - only 3,339 turned up for the next home game?

A crowd of 2,000 for the visit of Hibs?

And look at some of the other clubs - the combined gates fot the visits to Easter Road are below what Hibs would get for one home game these days. Sub 2,000 gates at Motherwell & St. Johnstone?

And if you remember back - this was a time when the quality in the Premier League was at an all time high. Scotland were ranked 3rd in the UEFA coefficients in both 82/83 and 83/84 - and St. Mirren were one of the top sides in that Premier League!

Yet attendances were terrible.........

[accietilleyedye]

Todd_is_God, on 13 March 2010 - 00:15, said:

Happy to be in the spl? Yes, obviously, but that doesn't mean we are enjoying it.

You happier to be banned and now unable to not enjoy it

[Todd_is_God]

accietilleyedye, on 13 March 2010 - 18:37, said:

You happier to be banned and now unable to not enjoy it

I didn't say that.

I can (and will) quite happily go to an away game if I'm not otherwise busy.

I implied that being in the SPL is where every club should aspire to be, and that's where we are, so that's obviously a good thing.

However, with 5 wins, and just 19 goals, from 27 games before today it hasn't exactly been enjoyable this season.

We've given ourselves a right good chance to survive again, and if we do that then we must attempt to build on this season, rather than trying to dismantle and assemble a new team again.

A proper pre season is a must.

[btb]

Captain_Sensible, on 13 March 2010 - 13:12, said:

Yet attendances were terrible.........

Fair enough but I still say you're not comparing like for like as there are more ST holders nowadays - out of Tuesday night's attendance of 3154 how many paid on the night, or will do for the majority of our home games between now and the split? We might get a big crowd for a relegation decider post split but that's about it.

PS - You still haven't come up with an alternative explanation as to why Hendrie's team was better supported than MacPherson's.