[Desert Nomad]

official site

Sounds like virtually in line with expectation after the collapse of Setanta.

[keithgy]

Wages rose to £3.60m


That is the scary bit in every football club.

[Deeboy]

keithgy, on 26 February 2010 - 20:14, said:

Wages rose to £3.60m

And yet Sir Craig achieved?..

[Drunken Hobo]

keithgy, on 26 February 2010 - 20:14, said:

Wages rose to £3.60m


That is the scary bit in every football club.

Only £300k more than Falkirk's! Remove Levein's salary and we'll be pretty similar.

Wages/turnover ratio is 62%, ideal is ~60% so we're not far off of it. Certainly better than Hearts' which has been 125% in recent years!

[keithgy]

Drunken Hobo, on 26 February 2010 - 20:30, said:

Only £300k more than Falkirk's! Remove Levein's salary and we'll be pretty similar.

Wages/turnover ratio is 62%, ideal is ~60% so we're not far off of it. Certainly better than Hearts' which has been 125% in recent years!

We had players on big wages(Bullen,McNamara,McCann and O'Brien)and look at the mess it got us in

[vikingTON]

Didn't the Dundee fans say United were losing money hand over fist? It's not like them to be wrong on financial issues.

[Bigmouth Strikes Again]

Worrying times. Would a cheeky 100k bid in the summer be enough to tempt Judas boy Robertson back?

[Szamo's_Ammo]

vikingTON, on 26 February 2010 - 21:35, said:

Didn't the Dundee fans say United were losing money hand over fist? It's not like them to be wrong on financial issues.

The figures are made up. According to a Dee with contacts at United, there are two zeros missing from the loss.

[Desert Nomad]

Bigmouth Strikes Again, on 26 February 2010 - 21:43, said:

Worrying times. Would a cheeky 100k bid in the summer be enough to tempt Judas boy Robertson back?

Who??? I have seen nobody that fits that description around Tannadice in quite some time.

[NotSainteeSean]

That link absolutely reeks of "oh shit oh shit oh shit... dont panic, try and put a positive spin on it... itll all be okay... "

This post has been edited by NotSainteeSean: 26 February 2010 - 23:26

[KiwiDB]

Drunken Hobo, on 26 February 2010 - 20:30, said:

Only £300k more than Falkirk's! Remove Levein's salary and we'll be pretty similar.

Wages/turnover ratio is 62%, ideal is ~60% so we're not far off of it. Certainly better than Hearts' which has been 125% in recent years!

I don't know the equivalents but it doesn't matter the outgoings, the turnover % is the main thing.

[False Light]

keithgy, on 26 February 2010 - 20:14, said:

Wages rose to £3.60m


That is the scary bit in every football club.

It's a modest increase and one which ties down our players for loner, which is a good thing in our case. 

vikingTON, on 26 February 2010 - 21:35, said:

Didn't the Dundee fans say United were losing money hand over fist? It's not like them to be wrong on financial issues.

Are you trying to suggest that we aren't going into administration? 

[EhMindohGillie]

False Light, on 27 February 2010 - 00:09, said:

Are you trying to suggest that we aren't going into administration?

Administration is actually a vehicle to save companies from their own mismanagement, leaving them on a stronger financial footing than before. Motherwell are the prime example of this, having not been relegated since their troubles. A spell in administration would be beneficial to United, as it's patently obvious from the link that United are indeed financially fucked and desperately need decent money in from the Scottish Cup and SPL league placement to avoid further hardship. Sacking Sandaza, Wilkie, Robertson and Cadamarteri would solve their problems immediately. Horseface Robertson (another bitter DAB with a Dee for a father) recently sanctioned a 'release' via a DAB propaganda website called 'EASTFOOTBALL', where it was claimed the differential between the old Setanta deal and the new Sky/ESPN was £6m a year to the SPL. No other club in the SPL has claimed this as the source of their problems AFAIK, with St Mirren recently announcing a shortfall of 'only' £100k last year due to the Setanta demise. You'll not find a single source on the internet which corroborates the claims in the 'release' via EASTFOOTBALL, that the old Setanta deal was worth £18m a year to the SPL. Most sources listed gives the figures as £54.5m a year for 4 years. Do the Math. I mean, at least Aberdeen were honest enough to admit they'd spent based on the sooper-dooper new Setanta deal, which was to kick in 2010-11. Honesty and the DABS don't go, though, proven by the absence of the £18m figure from the official release.

I'd like to add that I wouldn't blame the current chairman for these woes, if I were a DAB. Rather, like Stevie himself, I'd blame his old man. He's the one who spent the family fortune on trying to emulate Jim Mclean's success and bring himself the same prominence. After finding no such luck on the park, Mr Motherwell decided to name a stand after himself as his legacy. Fair doos, at least MM wasn't a Dee like Jum; he only supported Dundee, he never played for them with such applomb. Whether wee Stevie gives himself similar reward for his 'dedication' to the club remains to be seen. If yes, the "Stevie Thompson Office Desk Bendover" would seem appropriate, if you believe the rumours.

In summary, United have grossly overspent this past year, in the hope of reaching an easy League Cup final and making up the shortfall that way. Their fellow Dundee (the city)-haters put an end to that, which was actually a good laugh. Now, they have to hope that Levein can get away with capping the white Joel, who will start with Webster on Wednesday, and then claiming this 'Scotland internationalist' is easily worth a million, as opposed to his current valuation of £100k.

Lastly - vikingTon, you are a cock.

[banana]

EhMindohGillie, on 27 February 2010 - 02:36, said:

Lastly - vikingTon, you are a cock.

Irony at its most epic.

[False Light]

EhMindohGillie, on 27 February 2010 - 02:36, said:

Administration is actually a vehicle to save companies from their own mismanagement, leaving them on a stronger financial footing than before. Motherwell are the prime example of this, having not been relegated since their troubles. A spell in administration would be beneficial to United, as it's patently obvious from the link that United are indeed financially fucked and desperately need decent money in from the Scottish Cup and SPL league placement to avoid further hardship. Sacking Sandaza, Wilkie, Robertson and Cadamarteri would solve their problems immediately. Horseface Robertson (another bitter DAB with a Dee for a father) recently sanctioned a 'release' via a DAB propaganda website called 'EASTFOOTBALL', where it was claimed the differential between the old Setanta deal and the new Sky/ESPN was £6m a year to the SPL. No other club in the SPL has claimed this as the source of their problems AFAIK, with St Mirren recently announcing a shortfall of 'only' £100k last year due to the Setanta demise. You'll not find a single source on the internet which corroborates the claims in the 'release' via EASTFOOTBALL, that the old Setanta deal was worth £18m a year to the SPL. Most sources listed gives the figures as £54.5m a year for 4 years. Do the Math. I mean, at least Aberdeen were honest enough to admit they'd spent based on the sooper-dooper new Setanta deal, which was to kick in 2010-11. Honesty and the DABS don't go, though, proven by the absence of the £18m figure from the official release.

I'd like to add that I wouldn't blame the current chairman for these woes, if I were a DAB. Rather, like Stevie himself, I'd blame his old man. He's the one who spent the family fortune on trying to emulate Jim Mclean's success and bring himself the same prominence. After finding no such luck on the park, Mr Motherwell decided to name a stand after himself as his legacy. Fair doos, at least MM wasn't a Dee like Jum; he only supported Dundee, he never played for them with such applomb. Whether wee Stevie gives himself similar reward for his 'dedication' to the club remains to be seen. If yes, the "Stevie Thompson Office Desk Bendover"  would seem appropriate, if you believe the rumours.

In summary, United have grossly overspent this past year, in the hope of reaching an easy League Cup final and making up the shortfall that way. Their fellow Dundee (the city)-haters put an end to that, which was actually a good laugh. Now, they have to hope that Levein can get away with capping the white Joel, who will start with Webster on Wednesday, and then claiming this 'Scotland internationalist' is easily worth a million, as opposed to his current valuation of £100k.

Lastly - vikingTon, you are a cock.

Too long, didn't read. I assume it's wrong anyway so I'm not going to waste my time.

[Geefoxer]

False Light, on 27 February 2010 - 11:26, said:

Too long, didn't read. I assume it's wrong anyway so I'm not going to waste my time.

Which bit of the following do people not understand?

Dundee United's Annual Accounts for the period to June 2009 reflect the first effects of the collapse of Setanta on Scottish football, with an underlying net profit of £120k turned into a net loss of £137k due to an exceptional bad debt caused by the failure of the broadcaster's existing contract with the SPL.

That's not too shabby on anyone's books. Turnover was slightly down and wages were slightly up too which makes it even more remarkable that United managed to achieve that much.

Debt is now £5.4 million (as opposed to the £6.5 million quoted by various sources) and turnover was £5.8 for the year ending 2009. So our debt is less than our annual turnover which for anyone especially those with a mortgage would make good reading.

The fact that we can service our debt is what keeps the bank from our door and the intention to keep our wages in check is a sign of United's commitment to keep spending in order.

We are still punching far above our financial weight in relation to other teams in the SPL and it will be interesting if it can be sustained to the end of the season. Aberdeen's wage bill (the fourth highest in the SPL) was £5.9m for the year ending 2009. Hibs was £4.7m.

[False Light]

Geefoxer, on 27 February 2010 - 11:55, said:

Which bit of the following do people not understand?

I'm not sure. I'll put it really simply for everyone: our finances are ok. We still have a significant level of debt and it's still a concern but it's not a major problem and we aren't in any immediate financial danger. 

This post has been edited by False Light: 27 February 2010 - 12:13

[The big chair]

Geefoxer, on 27 February 2010 - 11:55, said:

Which bit of the following do people not understand?

Debt is now £5.4 million (as opposed to the £6.5 million quoted by various sources) and turnover was £5.8 for the year ending 2009. So our debt is less than our annual turnover which for anyone especially those with a mortgage would make good reading.

I don't understand how you get the debt is £5.4 million from this statement.

Quote

Bank borrowing at the end of the year stood at £5.996m. A further reduction of £100k was made to the term loan during the year, reducing this balance to £5.4m, while the overdraft figure was increased from £116k to £596k, some of which was due to the Setanta default. Nevertheless, this borrowing was well within the terms of the bank borrowing facility, which has since been renewed by the Bank. During the year, Directors' Loans were reduced from £192k to £135k.

[Geefoxer]

The big chair, on 27 February 2010 - 12:29, said:

I don't understand how you get the debt is £5.4 million from this statement.

"Bank borrowing at the end of the year stood at £5.996m. A further reduction of £100k was made to the term loan during the year, reducing this balance to £5.4m, while the overdraft figure was increased from £116k to £596k, some of which was due to the Setanta default. Nevertheless, this borrowing was well within the terms of the bank borrowing facility, which has since been renewed by the Bank. During the year, Directors' Loans were reduced from £192k to £135k"

Can't say I fully understand how it works either but that's what it seems to be saying.

This post has been edited by Geefoxer: 27 February 2010 - 13:00

[sightseer]

EhMindohGillie, on 27 February 2010 - 02:36, said:

Administration is actually a vehicle to save companies from their own mismanagement, leaving them on a stronger financial footing than before. Motherwell are the prime example of this, having not been relegated since their troubles. A spell in administration would be beneficial to United, as it's patently obvious from the link that United are indeed financially fucked and desperately need decent money in from the Scottish Cup and SPL league placement to avoid further hardship. Sacking Sandaza, Wilkie, Robertson and Cadamarteri would solve their problems immediately. Horseface Robertson (another bitter DAB with a Dee for a father) recently sanctioned a 'release' via a DAB propaganda website called 'EASTFOOTBALL', where it was claimed the differential between the old Setanta deal and the new Sky/ESPN was £6m a year to the SPL. No other club in the SPL has claimed this as the source of their problems AFAIK, with St Mirren recently announcing a shortfall of 'only' £100k last year due to the Setanta demise. You'll not find a single source on the internet which corroborates the claims in the 'release' via EASTFOOTBALL, that the old Setanta deal was worth £18m a year to the SPL. Most sources listed gives the figures as £54.5m a year for 4 years. Do the Math. I mean, at least Aberdeen were honest enough to admit they'd spent based on the sooper-dooper new Setanta deal, which was to kick in 2010-11. Honesty and the DABS don't go, though, proven by the absence of the £18m figure from the official release.

I'd like to add that I wouldn't blame the current chairman for these woes, if I were a DAB. Rather, like Stevie himself, I'd blame his old man. He's the one who spent the family fortune on trying to emulate Jim Mclean's success and bring himself the same prominence. After finding no such luck on the park, Mr Motherwell decided to name a stand after himself as his legacy. Fair doos, at least MM wasn't a Dee like Jum; he only supported Dundee, he never played for them with such applomb. Whether wee Stevie gives himself similar reward for his 'dedication' to the club remains to be seen. If yes, the "Stevie Thompson Office Desk Bendover" would seem appropriate, if you believe the rumours.

In summary, United have grossly overspent this past year, in the hope of reaching an easy League Cup final and making up the shortfall that way. Their fellow Dundee (the city)-haters put an end to that, which was actually a good laugh. Now, they have to hope that Levein can get away with capping the white Joel, who will start with Webster on Wednesday, and then claiming this 'Scotland internationalist' is easily worth a million, as opposed to his current valuation of £100k.

Lastly - vikingTon, you are a cock.

eh isn't webster on loan so his value has no bearing here

[Szamo's_Ammo]

EhMindohGillie, on 27 February 2010 - 02:36, said:

Administration is actually a vehicle to save companies from their own mismanagement, leaving them on a stronger financial footing than before. Motherwell are the prime example of this, having not been relegated since their troubles. A spell in administration would be beneficial to United, as it's patently obvious from the link that United are indeed financially fucked and desperately need decent money in from the Scottish Cup and SPL league placement to avoid further hardship. Sacking Sandaza, Wilkie, Robertson and Cadamarteri would solve their problems immediately. Horseface Robertson (another bitter DAB with a Dee for a father) recently sanctioned a 'release' via a DAB propaganda website called 'EASTFOOTBALL', where it was claimed the differential between the old Setanta deal and the new Sky/ESPN was £6m a year to the SPL. No other club in the SPL has claimed this as the source of their problems AFAIK, with St Mirren recently announcing a shortfall of 'only' £100k last year due to the Setanta demise. You'll not find a single source on the internet which corroborates the claims in the 'release' via EASTFOOTBALL, that the old Setanta deal was worth £18m a year to the SPL. Most sources listed gives the figures as £54.5m a year for 4 years. Do the Math. I mean, at least Aberdeen were honest enough to admit they'd spent based on the sooper-dooper new Setanta deal, which was to kick in 2010-11. Honesty and the DABS don't go, though, proven by the absence of the £18m figure from the official release.

I'd like to add that I wouldn't blame the current chairman for these woes, if I were a DAB. Rather, like Stevie himself, I'd blame his old man. He's the one who spent the family fortune on trying to emulate Jim Mclean's success and bring himself the same prominence. After finding no such luck on the park, Mr Motherwell decided to name a stand after himself as his legacy. Fair doos, at least MM wasn't a Dee like Jum; he only supported Dundee, he never played for them with such applomb. Whether wee Stevie gives himself similar reward for his 'dedication' to the club remains to be seen. If yes, the "Stevie Thompson Office Desk Bendover" would seem appropriate, if you believe the rumours.

In summary, United have grossly overspent this past year, in the hope of reaching an easy League Cup final and making up the shortfall that way. Their fellow Dundee (the city)-haters put an end to that, which was actually a good laugh. Now, they have to hope that Levein can get away with capping the white Joel, who will start with Webster on Wednesday, and then claiming this 'Scotland internationalist' is easily worth a million, as opposed to his current valuation of £100k.

Lastly - vikingTon, you are a cock.

FACT.

[Fife Saint]

sightseer, on 27 February 2010 - 13:11, said:

eh isn't webster on loan so his value has no bearing here

That was what I was thinking.

[The big chair]

Geefoxer, on 27 February 2010 - 12:58, said:

"Bank borrowing at the end of the year stood at £5.996m. A further reduction of £100k was made to the term loan during the year, reducing this balance to £5.4m, while the overdraft figure was increased from £116k to £596k, some of which was due to the Setanta default. Nevertheless, this borrowing was well within the terms of the bank borrowing facility, which has since been renewed by the Bank. During the year, Directors' Loans were reduced from £192k to £135k"

Can't say I fully understand how it works either but that's what it seems to be saying.

Yes that's what it appears to be saying if you're really stupid, but anyone with half a brain can see that the debt (that that they're fessing up to ) stands at £6.131 million. I also think it's unlikely that the bank and the directors are the only two creditors owed money by United. IMO the £6.5 million figure quoted earlier wont be far of the mark.

BTW anyone else think it's weird to reduce the loan debt and directors loans while running up the overdraft?

[sightseer]

Fife Saint, on 27 February 2010 - 14:19, said:

That was what I was thinking.

should i be worried having same thoughts as fifesaint:lol:

[MDCCCXCIII]

Geefoxer, on 27 February 2010 - 11:55, said:

Debt is now £5.4 million (as opposed to the £6.5 million quoted by various sources) and turnover was £5.8 for the year ending 2009. So our debt is less than our annual turnover which for anyone especially those with a mortgage would make good reading.

Even if your debt is £5.4m (which, after reading other accounts of your financial reports, it isn't) that's a debt to turnover ratio of 93%. That's not good reading. In fact, I think (but may be wrong) United are the only club in the SPL where the ratio is actually over 100%.

What is clear though, is that no-one on this thread knows exactly the situation behind the scenes. ST was quite damning about the financial situation in an interview recently, but proceeded to say things were OK if the transcript on Utd-Mad is correct.

On the field Utd are way ahead of Dundee, but I don't envy your financial situation one bit.