[The Master]

Nizzy, on 08 February 2010 - 22:03, said:

More:

"The Dark Blues may be happy to boast an eye-catching side and impressive performers such as Gary Harkins and Leigh Griffiths, despite a notable blip on Saturday when they lost away to Queen of the South, but it may be argued that their best acquisition this season has been Melville, a 40-year-old multimillionaire whose financial input — the amount of which he will not divulge — facilitated the signing of those players."

Anyway, I suppose I'll have to just go on your supposition, won't I?

Think about it logically for a second.

Melville could have put in £1 or £1m...that doesn't negate the fact we received £250k from Burnley thanks to their promotion. And £250k is the exact amount we spent on Harkins and Griffiths.

Isn't it strange how we spent not one penny more than that, despite being linked with every player under the sun...?

[General]

I don't see what this is all about really, he signed for United, what's the point? Did Dundee miss out on him? No. He missed out on Dundee.

Quote

"His people said he was still very keen, but, when I offered him the chance to fly over in time to be considered against Dunfermline on Sunday, the word back was he wanted to fly over on Monday coming instead. That's not the attitude I am looking for. I have a group of boys here who, first and foremost, want to do well for themselves, but are also giving everything they've got to take this club where it wants to be. "If a player I've been interested in is not of the same ilk, then he won't be coming here."

[jay_7]

Drunken Hobo, on 08 February 2010 - 20:54, said:

I have to hand it to you, you're a man of your word.

Indeed I am. He is far too good to be playing for the likes of Dundee. As RiG said a while back, if he had signed, he would have instantly become the best centre back in the First Division. Yinited have themselves a quality defender.

[Muggy]

Melville funded the Harkins and Griffiths deals. There's no point stating otherwise because it would be utter lies.

[The Master]

Classy JL, on 08 February 2010 - 23:50, said:

Melville funded the Harkins and Griffiths deals. There's no point stating otherwise because it would be utter lies.

Don't talk shite.

[Muggy]

The Master, on 08 February 2010 - 23:55, said:

Don't talk shite.

I think you'll find I typed that, actually, VD II.

[vikingTON]

VitalDees, on 08 February 2010 - 23:25, said:

I don't see what this is all about really, he signed for United, what's the point? Did Dundee miss out on him? No. He missed out on Dundee.

If you weren't so shit with numbers you could get a gig writing for Pravda.

[The Master]

Classy JL, on 09 February 2010 - 00:17, said:

I think you'll find I typed that, actually, VD II.

Don't talk shite.

[s.o.a.k]

The Arch, on 08 February 2010 - 21:59, said:

Cloggers? Right enough. Have you seen Martyn Corrigan play before? He's not called "Der Kaiser" for nothing.

did he not play for us at one time over the hill like the rest of your def

[Newton Dee]

So he signs for united , good for him.

[Stainrod's Fedora]

It'll be interesting to discover if United were forced to pay the agent the £20k that was demanded from Dundee, or whether he was simply chancing it with us because we are continually reported to be Scottish football's 'big spenders'.

This post has been edited by Stainrod's Fedora: 09 February 2010 - 08:34

[A_dee4life]

Stainrod, on 09 February 2010 - 08:33, said:

It'll be interesting to discover if United were forced to pay the agent the £20k that was demanded from Dundee, or whether he was simply chancing it with us because we are continually reported to be Scottish football's 'big spenders'.

What I was thinking. Doubt United paid anything near £20k. Mihadjuks would of been on at his agent to get him a club since the transfer windows already gone.

[ubertube]

any of the dundee insiders know how much was paid to harkins and griffiths agents?

[Mr X]

The Master, on 08 February 2010 - 23:16, said:

Think about it logically for a second.

Melville could have put in £1 or £1m...that doesn't negate the fact we received £250k from Burnley thanks to their promotion. And £250k is the exact amount we spent on Harkins and Griffiths.

Isn't it strange how we spent not one penny more than that, despite being linked with every player under the sun...?

But what about signing on fees, agents fees or the players wages?

Some of the revisionism in this thread is of truly Livvy proportions

[The Master]

Mr X, on 09 February 2010 - 10:04, said:

But what about signing on fees, agents fees or the players wages?

Ah, so now that it's been established that the money from Burnley covered the fees for Harkins and Griffiths, we're now scraping the barrel to find something that Calum Melville must have paid for...

You're assuming that there was a signing-on few. Agent fees are also somewhere between 4% and 10% of the transfer fee, so at the highest end that's "only" £25,000.

Quote

Some of the revisionism in this thread is of truly Livvy proportions

And some of the stuff spouted by fans of other teams is just complete and utter nonsense.

[Mr X]

The Master, on 09 February 2010 - 10:11, said:

Ah, so now that it's been established that the money from Burnley covered the fees for Harkins and Griffiths, we're now scraping the barrel to find something that Calum Melville must have paid for...

You're assuming that there was a signing-on few. Agent fees are also somewhere between 4% and 10% of the transfer fee, so at the highest end that's "only" £25,000.

And some of the stuff spouted by fans of other teams is just complete and utter nonsense.

We havent established anything. We're simply trying to look at the complete picture, rather than your overly simplistic x=y, therefore x and y are the same thing. You would absolutely shoot anyone else down who tried to use that sort of spurious logic.

I think its a pretty fair assumption that both players, and probably most others who've signed for Dundee, would have been attracted by generous financial packages. The money for these must be coming from somewhere.

Im not sure what you're aim is here. Everyone knows, and he's been relatively public about it, that Melville has put money into Dundee and that is, one of, the reasons they are top of the league. Why are you so desperate to deny that?

[Geefoxer]

Mr X, on 09 February 2010 - 10:24, said:

We havent established anything. We're simply trying to look at the complete picture, rather than your overly simplistic x=y, therefore x and y are the same thing. You would absolutely shoot anyone else down who tried to use that sort of spurious logic.

I think its a pretty fair assumption that both players, and probably most others who've signed for Dundee, would have been attracted by generous financial packages. The money for these must be coming from somewhere.

Im not sure what you're aim is here. Everyone knows, and he's been relatively public about it, that Melville has put money into Dundee and that is, one of, the reasons they are top of the league. Why are you so desperate to deny that?

No-on actually knows outwith the club. He might not have put any money in at all and because he owns the debt, he will be getting money from the club to pay it off. The value of this to DFC is that these payments will probably be much smaller than if they were servicing a bank debt and on top of that there is no sword hanging over their head if they are late with a payment. So both sides win.

Whether Dundee makes a profit this season is irrelevant because any deficit will be added to what is owed to Mr Melville and he will be hoping to recoup this if Dundee are promoted, when the revenue streams will dramatically increase.

You will have to strengthen for the SPL and that will put a big dent in your finances.

[The Master]

Mr X, on 09 February 2010 - 10:24, said:

We havent established anything. We're simply trying to look at the complete picture, rather than your overly simplistic x=y, therefore x and y are the same thing. You would absolutely shoot anyone else down who tried to use that sort of spurious logic.

Yes, it is overly-simplistic.

But it serves to prove that Melville is not bankrolling us to the extent that people are making out. We brought in £250k; we spent £250k (on fees). Maybe Melville paid the agents; I don't know. But an investment of £25k or thereabouts can't exactly be considered "bankrolling" and could probably have been covered by Dee4Life, or punting Darren Young off to Brechin or something.

Quote

I think its a pretty fair assumption that both players, and probably most others who've signed for Dundee, would have been attracted by generous financial packages. The money for these must be coming from somewhere.

We are paying First Division wages, with the promise of a bonus should we earn promotion (a bonus paid out of TV money).

Quote

Im not sure what you're aim is here. Everyone knows, and he's been relatively public about it, that Melville has put money into Dundee and that is, one of, the reasons they are top of the league. Why are you so desperate to deny that?

My aim is to discredit the stories that Calum Melville is bankrolling us to the extend that people continually try and make out, because once they've claimed it, they then use it to attack the club.

This post has been edited by The Master: 09 February 2010 - 11:02

[Soccer Dark Blue]

The Master, on 09 February 2010 - 11:02, said:

Yes, it is overly-simplistic.

But it serves to prove that Melville is not bankrolling us to the extent that people are making out. We brought in £250k; we spent £250k (on fees). Maybe Melville paid the agents; I don't know. But an investment of £25k or thereabouts can't exactly be considered "bankrolling" and could probably have been covered by Dee4Life, or punting Darren Young off to Brechin or something.




We are paying First Division wages, with the promise of a bonus should we earn promotion (a bonus paid out of TV money).


My aim is to discredit the stories that Calum Melville is bankrolling us to the extend that people continually try and make out, because once they've claimed it, they then use it to attack the club.

I wouldn't actually say £1800 a week for Griffiths and Harkins is First Division wages!

Melville has been bankrolling Dundee and the two transfers of Griffiths and Harkins came to more than the £250k you have mentioned. It was £115,000 for Griffiths and £150,000 for Harkins, which in total comes to £265,000. The money we got from Burnley for reaching promotion will be coming to us in installments, I don't actually think we got the money in one fell swoop. Agents fees etc will all have been payed by Melville and I can quite believe he has made substantial investments into the club behind the scenes. Also with the season ticket initiative, he'll have had to dig deep to make the pledge that directors would double the amount of season ticket sales in order to enhance the transfer budget.

We should be grateful we have him onboard, otherwise we couldn't afford to buy the likes of Griffiths and Harkins!

[ubertube]

The Master, on 09 February 2010 - 11:02, said:

Yes, it is overly-simplistic.

But it serves to prove that Melville is not bankrolling us to the extent that people are making out. We brought in £250k; we spent £250k (on fees). Maybe Melville paid the agents; I don't know. But an investment of £25k or thereabouts can't exactly be considered "bankrolling" and could probably have been covered by Dee4Life, or punting Darren Young off to Brechin or something.




We are paying First Division wages, with the promise of a bonus should we earn promotion (a bonus paid out of TV money).


My aim is to discredit the stories that Calum Melville is bankrolling us to the extend that people continually try and make out, because once they've claimed it, they then use it to attack the club.

are you avoiding my question about money paid to harkins and griffiths agents or did you just miss it?

[The Master]

Soccer Dark Blue, on 09 February 2010 - 11:15, said:

I wouldn't actually say £1800 a week for Griffiths and Harkins is First Division wages!

I bet you believe everything you read on the Internet.

[The Master]

ubertube, on 09 February 2010 - 11:15, said:

are you avoiding my question about money paid to harkins and griffiths agents or did you just miss it?

I did miss it, but I believe it was covered in one of my posts anyway (agents fees being between 4% and 10% of the transfer fee).

Or are you about to "shock" me with "insider info" that we did in fact pay them millions?

[stefw]

everyones going to be so bored next season if Dundee get promoted.

[Mr X]

Geefoxer, on 09 February 2010 - 10:40, said:

No-on actually knows outwith the club. He might not have put any money in at all and because he owns the debt, he will be getting money from the club to pay it off. The value of this to DFC is that these payments will probably be much smaller than if they were servicing a bank debt and on top of that there is no sword hanging over their head if they are late with a payment. So both sides win.

Whether Dundee makes a profit this season is irrelevant because any deficit will be added to what is owed to Mr Melville and he will be hoping to recoup this if Dundee are promoted, when the revenue streams will dramatically increase.

You will have to strengthen for the SPL and that will put a big dent in your finances.

Ho - less of the "you" thanks

The Master, on 09 February 2010 - 11:02, said:

Yes, it is overly-simplistic.

But it serves to prove that Melville is not bankrolling us to the extent that people are making out. We brought in £250k; we spent £250k (on fees). Maybe Melville paid the agents; I don't know. But an investment of £25k or thereabouts can't exactly be considered "bankrolling" and could probably have been covered by Dee4Life, or punting Darren Young off to Brechin or something.




We are paying First Division wages, with the promise of a bonus should we earn promotion (a bonus paid out of TV money).


My aim is to discredit the stories that Calum Melville is bankrolling us to the extend that people continually try and make out, because once they've claimed it, they then use it to attack the club.

But you cant simply ignore all of the other factors involved in those transfer deals or all other aspects of the finances. Say you made a loss of £1m this year, hypothetically, then all your argument does is suggest that Melville is bankrolling the club to the tune of £1m this season. Looked at in isolation, you're reasoning carries no weight whatsoever.

The facts are that Melville is "bank rolling" Dundee and no-one outside the club knows exactly to what extent. Its a reasonable assumption to make that this is a big part of why Dundee are top and if you want to question that assumption you'll have to come up with actual evidence.

[The Master]

Mr X, on 09 February 2010 - 11:51, said:

The facts are that Melville is "bank rolling" Dundee and no-one outside the club knows exactly to what extent. Its a reasonable assumption to make that this is a big part of why Dundee are top and if you want to question that assumption you'll have to come up with actual evidence.

Without knowing the size of his investment, the onus is surely on you to prove that he is bankrolling us?