[chico]

Gnash, on Jul 9 2009, 22:32, said:

What does the 'S' stand for - a mid-stage sprint? If so, why do they have 2 of them during a Hors category climb?!!

it's the tour. there's sprints in every stage, mountain or not. it may not make sense, but if there's a breakaway or the climbers are leading the sprint points on those mountain stages usually make little or no difference to the overall green jersey.

[Gnash]

chico, on Jul 10 2009, 20:52, said:

it's the tour. there's sprints in every stage, mountain or not. it may not make sense, but if there's a breakaway or the climbers are leading the sprint points on those mountain stages usually make little or no difference to the overall green jersey.

Fair enough, didn't realise that there were 2 or 3 sprints on every stage including mountain ones.

[Musketeer Gripweed]

When did Bradley Wiggins learn to climb like that? Fair play to him. It would be great if he could keep that kind of form up.

Some turn of speed by Contador though, breathtaking stuff.

[Shuggie_Murray7]

I felt a wee bit sorry for Evans today . He was trying to pull a few seconds back on his rivals but Astana just wouldnt let him.

Contadors turn of sped on the last climb just killed everyone......although to be fair Armstrong looked pretty strong. Perhaps he has be given his orders that Contador is team leader and was told to just block everyone off as Contador pulled away from them.

Great stage for Wiggins as he climbed pretty well with the best in the world.

[myshkin]

I've thoroughly enjoyed the first week. Highlight so far was the stage win for little Tommy Voeckler.

Contador, as expected delivered the goods yesterday. On that sort of grimping form only Michael Rasmussen could live with him.

Seeing as the chicken isn't riding this year the organisers should do the right thing and award the race to Contador now.

He might not have the maillot jaune but the game's up already.

[Musketeer Gripweed]

What a total waste of time the last two stages have been. Unbelievable considering they went over d'Apsin and the Tourmalet today. What was the point in going over them at all?

Feel sorry for Robert Millar over the last two days having to sit and type out emails from home about the climbs that Sean Kelly also went over in his time and gets paid to talk about.

[SJ1210]

bairnagain, on Jul 12 2009, 22:27, said:

Feel sorry for Robert Millar over the last two days having to sit and type out emails from home about the climbs that Sean Kelly also went over in his time and gets paid to talk about.

Why do you feel sorry for Millar? It was his decision to do it this way, Millar has been a recluse and had previously refused to do any form of interviews. It was his explicit instructions that it was to be done via email.

[Musketeer Gripweed]

Go on then, you tell me why Kelly gets paid to commentate on the race and says the square root of f**k all.

It was embarrasing the way the Eurosport guy was saying every 10 minutes, Oh, tell us about d'Aspin, tell as about the Tourmalet, tell us about the descent. Give the man a fucking break.

Why not ask Kelly? He did the same routes as Millar after all. Not that we be able to understand him anyway!

[SJ1210]

bairnagain, on Jul 13 2009, 22:31, said:

Go on then, you tell me why Kelly gets paid to commentate on the race and says the square root of f**k all.

It was embarrasing the way the Eurosport guy was saying every 10 minutes, Oh, tell us about d'Aspin, tell as about the Tourmalet, tell us about the descent. Give the man a fucking break.

Why not ask Kelly? He did the same routes as Millar after all. Not that we be able to understand him anyway!

Kellys main role on the coverage is as summariser so obviously he is going to say less than the main commentator but to say he says nothing is way off the mark. I am not a big fan of Kelly but how you can say he contibutes nothing is just not true and his knowledge of actual professional racing is second to none and you need that aspect.

If you look at the cycling commentary teams there is always the main commentator, who in most cases does not have a professional racing background and the summariser who has a pro racing background.

• Phil Liggett & Paul Sherwen
  
• David Harmon & Sean Kelly
  
• Anthony McCrossan & Brian Smith
  
• Martin McCrossan & Magnus Backstedt

All the main commentators (in bold) have no professional racing background yet have the main gig but each of the summarisers (in italics) have the professional racing experience which includes a Grand Tour winner, Tour de France Green Jersey, Tour de France stage wins and a Paris-Roubaix win etc etc

Phil Liggett can't tell you what its like to ride in a Tour de France but Paul Sherwen can draw on 7 rides in the Tour. David Harmon can only dream of wearing the Green Jersey in the TdF or winning the Vuelta well Kelly can boast 4 Green Jersey wins, 1 overall Vuelta win and 4 Points Jersey wins in the Vuelta. There is only 1 person who has won more green jerseys than Kelly.

If you were a regular watcher of Eurosport Cycling you would know how often Kelly gets asked about riding a certain stage or what it was like to ride in certain conditions etc and as for it being embarrasing well Millar was a completely different type of rider to Kelly in the fact that he was a specialist climber and so this was his territory, this is where Millar was at home so why not ask him all the details about what it was like for him. Seeing as Millar has never talked about his experiences and as the only British rider to ever win a Tour de France jersey it is obvious that whoever is interviewing him is going to want to ask these questions.

Having a guest on is quite common and it is good as this gives us the viewers a differernt perspective, they had Dan Lloyd (from the Cervelo test team) on in the first week and he was able to give a different insight into pro racing in the current climate.

As I said earlier i am not a big fan of Sean Kelly as part of the commentary team but I appreciate what he brings to the table which obviously you fail to understand and to be honest I prefer him to some of the other guys on the Eurosport roster ie Duffied and Kirby.

[myshkin]

I would have to agree that those last two stages through the Pyrenees were a bit of a joke, especially the last one where the amount of flat racing made the two big climbs a waste of time. The Alps and then the Ventoux should be a lot more interesting in that respect.

Next three stages are a bit lumpy so I would be looking for breaks to succeed. World champion Allesandro Ballan isn't a threat on the GC and I will be looking for him to make more of an impact before they hit the hight passes again.

[myshkin]

I don't mind listening to Sean Kelly although his glib responses when questioned about drug taking is annoying. Especially when you read about the close relationship he had with soignier Willy Voet in his book Breaking the Chain.

[Shengus Khan]

Cavendish holds off the Thor for his 3rd stage of this tour

Britain's best sportsman has now cut Hushovd's green jersey lead to a meagre 6 points. 'Mon the Cav!

This post has been edited by Shengus Khan: 14 July 2009 - 15:39

[Musketeer Gripweed]

A question I never thought I would ever be asking after watching the Tour for 25 years at least...

Who would be considered by th Great British public as the most successful British rider in the Tour, a top ten finisher in GC or the Green Jersey winner?

Assuming Wiggins can keep it up and not get stupidly caught out like he did today.

Not that either will get any recognition anyway.

[SJ1210]

bairnagain, on Jul 14 2009, 23:13, said:

Who would be considered by th Great British public as the most successful British rider in the Tour, a top ten finisher in GC or the Green Jersey winner?


Not that either will get any recognition anyway.

Well I hope that Robert Millar would trump both with his 4th place and King of the Mountains jersey.

Although a Green jersey and 3+ stage wins is more likely to get more recognition than a top 10 placing.

[chico]

bairnagain, on Jul 14 2009, 23:13, said:

A question I never thought I would ever be asking after watching the Tour for 25 years at least...

Who would be considered by th Great British public as the most successful British rider in the Tour, a top ten finisher in GC or the Green Jersey winner?

Assuming Wiggins can keep it up and not get stupidly caught out like he did today.

Not that either will get any recognition anyway.

whatever's happens, it'll get buried under another mentalist man city signing.

majority of the sports press won't go big over any real achievement, but it might help improve coverage for next year, timing of the ashes series this summer won't help

[Desert Nomad]

bairnagain, on Jul 14 2009, 23:13, said:

A question I never thought I would ever be asking after watching the Tour for 25 years at least...

Who would be considered by th Great British public as the most successful British rider in the Tour, a top ten finisher in GC or the Green Jersey winner?

Assuming Wiggins can keep it up and not get stupidly caught out like he did today.

Not that either will get any recognition anyway.

The tour race officials overturned the 15 seconds lost by Wiggins(& Leipheimer) in the closing stages of yesterdays stage.
A fine win from Cav today. Showed he has brute strength as well as pure speed on a tough finishing straight. Back in green with Hushovd fading to 5th.

[theentomologist]

Desert Nomad, on Jul 15 2009, 18:36, said:

The tour race officials overturned the 15 seconds lost by Wiggins(& Leipheimer) in the closing stages of yesterdays stage.
A fine win from Cav today. Showed he has brute strength as well as pure speed on a tough finishing straight. Back in green with Hushovd fading to 5th.

indeed. had to really when Thor tried to get a jump on the lead out by Renshaw. Great win -tie the record?

[Desert Nomad]

theentomologist, on Jul 15 2009, 19:58, said:

indeed. had to really when Thor tried to get a jump on the lead out by Renshaw. Great win -tie the record?

yeah that`s him equal with Barry Hoban now with 8 stage wins for a British rider. Gonna have a chance again tomorrow, but his team must be getting tired with all the work they`ve been doing.

[Musketeer Gripweed]

Well, I would have thought a top ten finish in GC by Wiggins (if it happens) would have been better than the Green Jersey Cavendish will win.

Best thing about the tour so far though, blood cells have not been mentioned yet.

I watched the highlights of today's stage on ITV4 tonight. Interesting email Liggett and Sherwin answered about their all time English speaking team. How Sean Kelly got into it I'll never know. That is never English he speaks. More worrying was they both missed out Stephen Roche.

[myshkin]

bairnagain, on Jul 15 2009, 23:05, said:

Well, I would have thought a top ten finish in GC by Wiggins (if it happens) would have been better than the Green Jersey Cavendish will win.

Best thing about the tour so far though, blood cells have not been mentioned yet.

I watched the highlights of today's stage on ITV4 tonight. Interesting email Liggett and Sherwin answered about their all time English speaking team. How Sean Kelly got into it I'll never know. That is never English he speaks. More worrying was they both missed out Stephen Roche.

I missed that and it sounds quite interesting. Can you remember the names?

In no particular order my guesses for the names would be:

Robbie McEwan
Lance Armstrong
Robert Millar
Andrew Hampsten (sp)
George Hincapie
Sean Kelly
Greg LeMond
Mark Cavendish

And maybe the likes of Phil Anderson, Sean Yates, Stuart O'Grady, Cadel Evans....

Do I come close?

[buddie06smfc]

Desert Nomad, on Jul 15 2009, 18:36, said:

The tour race officials overturned the 15 seconds lost by Wiggins(& Leipheimer) in the closing stages of yesterdays stage.
A fine win from Cav today. Showed he has brute strength as well as pure speed on a tough finishing straight. Back in green with Hushovd fading to 5th.

In the most part it was Cavendish's teams organisation and dedication and obviously not allowing their plan to be disrupted by the other cyclists around. That's not taking away the fact that it was a great win for Cavendish.

[SJ1210]

Phil and Paul were asked to choose their all time Tour de France team of English speaking riders. Both teams were pretty similar

Phil's team

Lance Armstrong
Robert Millar
Mark Cavendish
Tommy Simpson
Phil Anderson
Sean Kelly
Stevie Bauer
Brian Robertson
Chris Boardman

Paul's team

Lance Armstrong
Robert Millar
Mark Cavendish
Tommy Simpson
Phil Anderson
Sean Kelly
Barry Hoban
Bradley Wiggins
Sean Yates

I think the reason they missed out Roche is because they both selected Armstrong as their team leader.

[Desert Nomad]

buddie06smfc, on Jul 16 2009, 11:37, said:

In the most part it was Cavendish's teams organisation and dedication and obviously not allowing their plan to be disrupted by the other cyclists around. That's not taking away the fact that it was a great win for Cavendish.

yip, today just goes to show what happens when Columbia decide to take a day off from chasing, the breakaway suceeds. Cav & Columbia have battered the other sprinters & their teams into submission. Could well be that Cav may only get one more shot at a stage in Paris.

[Gnash]

bairnagain, on Jul 15 2009, 23:05, said:

Well, I would have thought a top ten finish in GC by Wiggins (if it happens) would have been better than the Green Jersey Cavendish will win.

That's not what you asked though. You asked what would be regarded by the British public as a bigger success - and even a 2nd place in the GC would almost certainly be overshadowed in the minds of the public by a green jersey win. At the moment it's looking more likely that Wiggins will get in the top 10 than Cavendish will get the green jersey (it's difficult to see him winning any more stages other than Paris, or possibly 14 - if he gets there) - yet there has been far more media focus on Cav than Wiggins.

As for which is 'better'.... beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'd say top 5 in GC would be better than a green jersey win - others will think differently.

[myshkin]

Wiggins won't finish in the top ten.

Indeed if he is still top ten by the end of the stage on Friday he will be doing well.

After the farce of the Pyrenees the real racing starts today.

This post has been edited by myshkin: 17 July 2009 - 07:53